Talk:Chicken Hawk: Men Who Love Boys (film documentary on BoyLovers by Adi Sideman, 1994)

From BoyWiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Could this page be incorporated into this entry? Chicken Hawk: Men Who Love Boys (film)

Also, I am not sure if the "Download the .torrent file" is not a copyright violation... best to be sure that the author has made it freely available no? --Etenne (talk) 18:45, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

The interpretation of copyright law varies by jurisdiction. Many jurisdictions allow the downloading of copyrighted material if for personal use only, and not for profit (for reselling of the material). (If you want the references for that, I can dig them up for you -- but it is a big hassle...) User4 (talk) 01:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I have now added a note to that effect in the article. User4 (talk) 02:01, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
No, I feel this is a violation of both BoyWiki and Free Spirits policy. Please be careful not to link to down loads of illegal or copyrighted material. --Etenne (talk) 03:10, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I strongly disagree. You "feel" it is a violation of both BoyWiki and Free Spirits policy to include links, though I can demonstrate that your "feeling" is incorrect. I believe you should check to confirm that your "feeling" is correct (which it is not, unless something has changed that I am unaware of). You also could benefit from the study of international copyright law and interpretation.
I "feel" (and I can back up my "feeling" with facts) that the edit should be reverted, but I am not going to do so.
Would you like some links to international copyright laws?

User4 (talk) 03:51, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

BTW - are you aware that the absolutely worst thing that could happen -- if links to objectionable materials are included (we are not talking about illegal KP - that is a big problem) -- is that you would get an e-mail saying, "Remove those links, or else!" If you then remove the links, the "problem" is over. That's it. You get an e-mail, then remove the links. Until you get an e-mail like that, you have no problems!. Really. What I am saying is true! That is how the new laws work - you must be given the chance to remove the objectionable links first. And if you do remove them, then the whole thing is over. That's it. Nothing more. Finis. You and BW are then free and clear. But, actually, you will never even get such an e-mail (except from a hack lawyer who doesn't know the law,) because links are not the same thing as actually reproducing copyrighted material. The onus is on the one who reproduces the materials, NOT on the one who simply links to the materials. That is the law, too. User4 (talk) 12:49, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
It doesn't matter if it legal is Saudi Arabia or any where else in the world, it is not legal where our server is hosted. A internet host very near to where we are got raided not to long ago because they hosted a site that downloaded pirated movies. Just because something is legal in some other part of the world, doesn't make it legal here. Even if it is as you say borderline legal, Boywiki is not going to allow direct linking to torrents and sites to download copyrighted movies, music and books that have not been made freely distributable by the copyright owner or without the owner's expressed permission. In fact, it is always better to get the owners permission first whenever possible. However I will run this by Bron and the Wiki Council and get his/their opinion. The may agree with you, I don't know. --Etenne (talk) 13:48, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
When you say "it is not legal where our server is hosted" the "it" is not clear. Where the server is located, it is not legal to reproduce copyrighted materials without permission (barring "fair use").
SO -- reproducing copyrighted materials (without permission) is not permitted -- BUT -- Posting a link to copyrighted materials on other sites is NOT a violation of copyright laws.
Therefore, your statement that "it is not legal where our server is located" is factually incorrect. It is perfectly legal to post links to other sites which have copyrighted materials on THEIR site. The materials are NOT on BoyWiki. Therefore BW has NOT reproduced the materials. So links are perfectly legal. THAT IS THE LAW! User4 (talk) 14:02, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
For example, here is a link to copyrighted material on female perpetrators of child sexual abuse: http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rayleen_Luca/publication/223102007_Female_perpetrators_of_child_sexual_abuse_A_review_of_the_clinical_and_empirical_literature/links/0f3175350802436048000000.pdf
Now, does the site have permission to reproduce the material? I have NO idea. BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER TO BW! If they don't have permission then THEY are violating copyright law. But that does not matter to BW! All we have done is provided a link. It is the responsibility of the other site to comply with copyright law - NOT for BW to ensure that the other site is compliant with copyright law. If all sites were required to ensure the compliance of other sites with copyright laws, then almost NO links to anything would ever be available on the Internet! User4 (talk) 14:20, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I have made a post to the Wiki council to get their judgment on this matter... let's hope that I am wrong and that they agree with you... as that does make that information easier to access... so we will see. --Etenne (talk) 14:23, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I know all this stuff is very complicated, but I'll mention the other side of the issue -- the downloading of copyrighted materials.
If the one doing the downloading is outside of The Axis of Evil countries (or some European countries) the downloading of copyrighted material is reproducing the material (reproducing it on your computer).
This may -- or may not -- be legal, depending on the interpretation of copyright law in the legal jurisdiction where the downloader resides (for personal use vs for commercial use). It is the downloader's responsibility to know his local law. For example, if you download the material I linked to above, you may (or may not) be violating copyright laws (I don't know where you live...).
I gave you (by putting the link) the opportunity to learn more about child abuse perpetrated by females, information you will obtain by downloading the material. It is your choice to download it, or not.
BoyLovers around the world need access to materials that could help them - but if BW takes a conservative stance on the issue, then BW will be complicit in the furthering of the persecution of BoyLovers everywhere, by denying them information that is relevant to them. In fact, to do so could even lead to the suicide of despondent BoyLovers who lack information -- and the responsibility would be BoyWiki's for their death! Just sayin', heh. Have a nice day... ;-) User4 (talk) 15:15, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I don't want to get in to a major argument about these issues as I am not a legal expert...all I am asking is that people be prudent and try to use good judgement. I think it would be allowable to say that more info..torrents for movies, books, etc are available from Google or even by naming a specific site(but not linked directly). I understand that it is a pain, it is perhaps even unfair... but that is the world we live it. --Etenne (talk) 16:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)