BoyWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Etenne

2021-06-20T22:48:41Z

Caprineus: The true problem

==Subpages==
*[[Talk:Etenne/subpage1]]
*[[BoyWiki:Etenne's Palaestra]]
* [[User:Etenne/temp/MBM]]

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==To all users==
It would be a good idea to review this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

In short, the neutrality of point of view leads to an objective, "scientific" discourse, whereas non-neutrality leads to one-sided views and propaganda.

An important point is perhaps to understand that specific sympathies are not incompatible with a neutral point of view: you can like a country, a person, an amorous preference, and nevertheless be able of an objective discourse about it.

Only objectivity is credible. That's why it is vital for BoyWiki. We don't "promote", we explain and illustrate. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

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'''Please ask yourself before hitting the post button'''

# '''Dose this have a cultural or historical [[BoyWiki:Relevance policy|relavance to boylove]]?'''
# '''By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?'''

== To all BoyWiki users:Naming ==

The convention for naming pages is that articles should be singular whereas categories should be plural.

*Names of topics and topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a BoyWiki. article. Examples: "Law" (which represents a body of knowledge), "France", "George W. Bush".

*Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland".

However, I am willing to hear counter arguments to this practice or suggestions before deciding what the policy should be --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 13:17, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

:Just yesterday I noticed that Wikipedia has categories with a singular title, e.g. [[wikipedia:Category:Vagina]]. Also, there are some plural article titles, e.g.[[wikipedia:Jews]]. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 15:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

::You can't figure out what those two (obvious, at least, to me) errors are due to? Uh... You certainly make up in glibness what you lack in perspicacity. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
:::Enlighten me. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
::::Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

== Adding a review ==

I'm about to type in a review of Show Me! In the journal Family Counselor, off of JStor. Before putting in that effort, I wanted to be sure you had no problem with it. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 16:39, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
:So long as it is not a copyright violation and appropriately referenced, it shouldn't be a problem. You can add excerpts etc... --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 18:21, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

It is a copyright violation. Including the Show Me! preface is one. I suspect I could easily find more. I'm pretty knowledgable about copyright and my recommendation is to just ignore it, especially since you have no commercial purpose. The worst that could happen is someone sends a letter asking that something be taken down. They aren't going to use their lawyers' time with a nonprofit individual user with no money who's not selling anything. It's not worth it to them. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 02:29, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

== Sex offender risk assessment ==

Can you please restore [[sex offender risk assessment]] to my userspace? Maybe it can eventually be improved to a point where it's suitable for mainspace. Thanks, [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 19:47, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

== Please fix categories for Child Rescue Coalition ==

I can't figure out what I did wrong. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 12:20, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
:You used the wrong brackets. I have done that before too--[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:46, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

== Relevance of CPS-related issues to boylove ==

Hey Etenne,

The anti-CPS movement doesn't have a wiki yet. To what extent, if any, would you consider [http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Miscellany:Transcript_of_CPS_Whistleblower_Carlos_Morales_at_Liberty_Fest_NC this type of content] relevant to boylove? (Currently it's hosted at Mises Wiki, which will eventually go defunct because the Mises Institute's unspoken policy is to neither maintain nor destroy the wiki, and it's gradually rotting as the code becomes more and more outdated and begins to malfunction, an example being the InstantCommons which no longer works after Wikimedia's shift from http to https.)

The way I look at it, CPS is going to have a chilling effect on free speech as they take away the kids of anyone who is too outspokenly opposed to the age of consent, or who admits to having pedophilic desires. An example would be [http://nathania.org/w/images/c/c1/Piper_Morgan_Sparrow_Faye_amended_petition.pdf this petition] stating, "It has been reported that Father has pedophilic desires. . . . It is alleged that Father has posted numerous online material expounding justifications for sexual relations between adults and children, placing the welfare of the subject Child at risk. . . . Father admits his pedophilic desires".

The site asks, "Please ask yourself before hitting the save button Does this have a cultural or historical relevance to boylove?" Culture consists of values and norms, so could potentially extend into the political and legal realms. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 17:43, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== "Village pump"? ==

Di we have a page here for wiki-related discussions? __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 13:28, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

:Yes, https://www.boywiki.org/en/BoyWiki:Agora [[BoyWiki:Agora]] We are kind of into the ancient Greek culture :)--[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 13:42, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

::You are, huh? Who'd have thunk… ;-) __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 13:48, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

== Uploading? ==

Hello,

How can I upload a picture or two? [[User:Haiduc|Haiduc]] ([[User talk:Haiduc|talk]]) 17:49, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

:[[BoyWiki:Requests for file uploads]] --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 18:03, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

== Exempt regulars from CAPTCHA ==

I wonder if regulars could be exempted from having to fill out the CAPTCHA all the time? See [[mediawikiwiki:Manual:$wgAutopromote]] for more info on how to accomplish that. I was thinking that maybe editors who have, say, 1,000 edits and have been here for 100 days could be exempted from the CAPTCHA. Thanks. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 17:50, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

== Geez ==

These days, BoyChat is starting to have almost as much downtime as GirlChat. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 22:09, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, but it is good to have a break now and then..... I personally plan to get quite drunk tonight. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 22:29, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

== A vicious cycle ==

I want to donate to Free Spirits to help defend against DDoS attacks, but I guess the attackers took down the donation page too! [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:13, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
:Yes, and I do not know for how long it will be down. I will know more maybe by Monday. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 04:51, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
::[[wikipedia:List_of_Charlie_and_the_Chocolate_Factory_characters#Veruca_Salt|But I want BoyChat to be back up NOW!]] [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 15:52, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
:::The Tech. people are working on that but I have been given no ETA on when they will finish. When you are a BL, you learn to be patient :) --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 16:21, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
:::: BC will be back sometime on Monday, after the new security features are added. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 15:37, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::BoyChat is now back online--[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 20:22, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::The donation page still [https://www.boychat.org/messages/1466753.htm isn't working] beyond the first step of the pledge process though. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 22:30, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

== The donation page still isn't working! ==

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:10, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

:Yes, I know. I have no idea when it will be up and running again. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:41, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
::Is BoyChat going the way of Newgon? [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 01:47, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
::: No, just a minor annoyance. We BL's move slowly but we keep moving..... if you knew how many times BoyChat was in real danger of dying, you'd be amazed that we are still here 20 years later. Someday the antis may win but that day is not today or anytime soon. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 02:47, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

== NEVER GIVE UP ==

[http://childwiki.org/w/images/3/35/Screencapture-fsco-freespirits-info-fundraiser-pledge-1456191002922.png THERE'S ALWAYS A CHANCE THAT YOUR DREAMS CAN BECOME A REALITY]. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 01:32, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, I am not sure that is going to work but we will see. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 02:45, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
::Especially since I forgot my pledge number and never got an email, so now I have to do a new pledge. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 10:29, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

== Hi. I'm alive, and, well... ==

I've been very very busy preparing materials for uploading. Of course, having lost my Internet connection several months ago did put a small crimp in my uploading style. Now dozens of books are in the pipeline, most simply waiting for final proofreading...

Well, I'm "Internetized" again, as of about two hours ago. But I'm still too busy to contribute much here... sorry about that...

Anyway, I'm just saying "hello". I hope you're OK. You may have been wondering if I was still alive...

BTW-- I don't remember much of the Wiki coding that I had learned, so expect errors for awhile in anything I do contribute...

Cheers! À bientôt

[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 17:09, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

:I am glad you are doing well and look forward to your future contributions to BoyWiki. I suppose that wiki code is rather like riding a bike [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px]] ... --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 17:52, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

::Nice! What other "smileys" do we have available?

::[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 13:58, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
:::That and just the regular one [[File:Face-smile.png|30 px]] are the only ones I have added so far. I just happened to like that one and decided to add it to my signature (until I get bored with it) Collecting BL related graphics is a hobby. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px]] 14:10, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

== Problems with User4 ==

I have been working on the article on Browser security, which I think I know something about both technically and socially. (I went through having my computer seized and searched.) He comes in and puts in things that are just wrong, such as "TOR is secure". We're having a low key edit war and I'm pretty frustrated about it. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 01:26, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

: I wish I had an easy answer for you or could say what is right but that is way beyond my area of expertise. I am sorry you are feeling frustrated. Sometimes it is difficult to work together when both people believe deeply that they are right. I don't have an answer. I do appreciate how you must be feeling and the work you do here --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px]] 02:48, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

== What to work on ==

Where would my finite efforts be most useful? I have a Ph.D. In history/literature; also very good at English and editing. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 01:54, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

:Hard to answer as I am not sure what your areas of interest are... my advice is to write about what you are passionate about. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px]] 02:41, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

== You might want to help out some BLs by posting ==

My article (it's pretty much finished--I've picked my brain for everything I could think of), "BoyLover mistakes leading to arrest and conviction" to the BC thread:

BCers convicted of crime: How did you get caught? - qwolk 2016-March-23 22:58:54, Wednesday (13)

https://www.boychat.org/messages/1469554.htm

Or, then again, you might ''not'' want to. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 20:28, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

== Something for the French BoyWiki, perhaps? ==

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kkMGFcTJ8fIJ:http://mo.michelonfray.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Le-cheval-de-Vincennes1.pdf%2B%22Une+erotique+puerile%22+filetype:pdf&hl=en&gbv=1&filter=0&&ct=clnk

http://mo.michelonfray.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Le-cheval-de-Vincennes1.pdf

[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 19:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

== How do I "edit" an Agora entry to reply? ==

Your last entry was, "The only advice on that I can give is that it maybe..." but I see no way to edit that entry to reply. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 15:58, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, that thing works with JS (don't blame me... yell at Conner) you are going to have to go to the page directly [[BoyWiki:Agora/3_April_2016]] I believe. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 17:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== I need a really small favor ==

I need to know if archive.org ''actually caches'' .PDF files, or if it simply ''links'' to the website. If they ''actually cache'' the .PDF files, then those files will be permanently available, even if that keepandshare account is closed. If the .PDF files are ''not'' cached, then--if the account is closed--the files will be lost.

If you click the following link, my question will be answered. Thanks! (You don't have to actually save the file when given the choice--just click on the link, then close the "save as" popup, and then close the browser window.)

https//www.marti2u.keepandsare.com

Let me know if you ''do'' do me this favor, OK?, because otherwise I won't know how archive.org is handling things... Thanks [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 14:15, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
:It seems to work. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 15:30, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

::I'm checking out to see what actually happened... I don't know yet... Thanks much for your help! (put another URL above, so no-one will accidentally repeat your test and screw things up...) [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 15:41, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

:::Well, it looks like it was a "failure," meaning that archive.org ''does not'' cache the actual .PDF files themselves, but it just caches the ''links'' to them at keepandshare. That's a real shame... if the "marti" sites close, then the files will be lost forever... Now I'm really discouraged... I don't know what to do... :-( [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 16:34, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

== Hi. I know you're very busy, but I'd just like to point out that you haven't yet responded to a comment about Agora that I made ==

https://www.boywiki.org/en/User5/Draft/Agora_without_Javascript Thanks. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:02, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

== I made a sample "Here's some help" page for Buster's user page. ==

I think you can probably find it. Oh, where is everybody today? I'm feeling lonely, here all by myself... [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 04:16, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
:I am sorry you were feeling lonely but some days, I actually have to do real work.( which I am paying for today) I have a number of jobs that I have to get done (and several little jobs I want to get done) but unfortunately, the weather this year has been less then cooperative. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 13:01, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

== The Main Page of BoyWiki looks very nice! ==

I just wanted to let you know my opinion of it. You put a lot of work into it, I know. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:38, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

== User4 ==

Can't you just block him for a month or something? He's not that bad of a guy. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 00:15, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
:Yes, I wish that were possible however he refuses to take direction, he does things that I ask him not to do. Right now, I can't be around to monitor BoyWiki as often, as it is my busy time of year (which was the major factor in my decision). I simple can't trust him to be responsible. If he would stick to writing about books and other things of interest, I would not have a problem (so long as he did so within the copyright laws) but he has made it very clear to me that he will not do that and he doesn't care what I think and is going to do what he pleases... and that being the case, he is now more of a liability then an asset. The bottom line is that he can think that I am wrong all he likes, he can think I am an asshole, but he needs to understand that I am the person in charge and when I say don't do it then don't do it! I have always thought that User4 had a good deal to offer BoyWiki (and still do) but if he can't work within the structure, it is pointless to continue. I am done arguing, I am done fighting. I simple don't have the time or energy to do it. I have never thought user4 was "that bad of a guy" but BoyWiki is highly structured (i.e. it is not a message board) and the type of writing that is required is also structured (formula writing) and is not something that is in everyone's wheelhouse. Sometimes you have to work inside the proverbial box and user4 has proven to me that he is either unwilling or unable to do that. However, I will think about it and maybe when I am feeling less pressed and overwhelmed, my heart will be less hardened on this subject. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 02:51, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
::"it is my busy time of year" 3-6 months block, then? If this were Wikipedia, he would probably just create another account and edit using that, but it isn't possible here. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 10:03, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

== English ==
Home page is two words.

Degrees of anonymity exist in English. Doing somethng, you can be more anonymous than before. What user4 calls anonymity we would call "total anonymity". So it's not that you have to choose between anonymity and non-anonymity. Changes made in TOR, which is far from totally secure, and browser security. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 22:22, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

==user4 is dangerous==
His inaccurate changes to articles on computer security - basically portraying things as better and safer than they are - are putting boylovers in danger. I suggest you block him.

Do you want references on Tor's lack of security?

Computers become rapidly more powerful (Moore's Law). Thus they are more and more able to penetrate encryption. For more info, look up prime numbers under Cryptography.

You may not know whether to believe me or not, but isn't it safer to assume I'm right? [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 22:50, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
:User4 is currently banned.--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 13:18, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

== Deletion of [[Internet security tutorial]] ==

I believe this article should be archived (deleted). It was written in 2009, is full of outdated and other misinformation (and grammar/spelling mistakes), and I don't think it's worth the effort to edit and update it. The very concept of a security tutorial which, if followed, will make you secure is a big miThe situation changes significantly at least every year, sometimes several times a year. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 11:38, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

== Suggest deletion of [[What if Astrologers took over the government?]] ==

Another User4 article, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing (a quote from Macbeth by Shakespeare).

I made a mistake referring to prime numbers. I should have said factorials. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 11:50, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

== Ottoman picture ==
I have some nineteenth-century ones that must be public domain. But how do I get them to you? In fact one would be good for the article. But I have no idea what the next step is.

I have more to do on the computer security articles. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 12:30, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
:Ether email picture to me at etenne@boywiki.org or post it some place where I can download it. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 13:41, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

:: I cannot figure out how to do this without leaving a trail back to my IP. Is there no direct way to upload a file to Boywiki? [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 14:18, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
:::No, most people email them to me or provide me the URL where I can retrieve them. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 14:25, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4794/396/1600/kocek.0.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Turkish_19th_century_kocek_dancer_01.jpg/200px-Turkish_19th_century_kocek_dancer_01.jpg

This is hand-colored:
http://babayagamusic.com/Encyclopedic-Dictionary-Ethnic-Arts/images/Ottoman-kocek-dancer-late-nineteenth-century-320x504.jpg

This says "danseuse" (female dancer, male is "danseur") but that can't be right. A female wouldn't wear this type of outfit. The kocek dancers were all male.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Turkish_19th_century_kocek_dancer_02.jpg [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 17:05, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
:Some of these we already have: https://www.boywiki.org/media/File:Turkish_-_Dancing_Kocek_-_Late_19th_c_-_wiki.jpg
https://www.boywiki.org/media/File:Turkish_19th_century_kocek_dancer_01.jpg
--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 17:56, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

== Government ccontact ==

Do you receive hate mail? Get contacted by any type of government body? Not just law enforcement.

I'm concerned about security. I guess there's at least one sheriff deputy among the users?

You have let an identity detail slip. Is there a way I can tell you other than posting it here (which I'm not going to do)..[[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 19:01, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
:''Do you receive hate mail?'' NO, I never get hate mail. ''Get contacted by any type of government body? Not just law enforcement'' No, I have never been contacted by any agency of any government or any agency of law enforcement.--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 19:48, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

== Being offline ==

Is there anyplace I can read what happened? [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 07:13, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
:I am not sure what you mean... you mean about the outage?--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 18:50, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

::Yes I mean about theoutage. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 20:30, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

== Thanks so much for putting up zethos ==

Sure missed boywiki while it was gone! [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 20:29, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

== Can we have a page about BoyChat's current status? ==

E.g. how to get to it? [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 21:05, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
: I updated the BoyChat page now with two ways to get to it. [[User:Hikari-again|hikari-again]] ([[User talk:Hikari-again|talk]]) 1:23:45 AM Monday, August 28, 2017 (UTC)
:: I was told what was going on today and really the problem could be a result of many different issues... my guess is that there is a cable loose. However as this is Free Spirits, first we have to identify the person with the tech. skills to plug in a cable and the person with the authority to tell him to go plug it back in. This should go relatively quickly. I only anticipate that it will take a dozen or so meetings.--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 02:41, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

== Is there an article about boys' hitting on men? ==
I know there's http://www.childwiki.nathania.org/wiki/Testimony:_CSA_(Children%27s_Sexual_Advances)
[[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 05:26, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

== Dost thou? ==

Just asking.

H.
:Not understanding what you are asking --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 13:59, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

::J'ai essaye de t'ecrire. Tu sais ou me trouver. [[User:Haiduc|Haiduc]] ([[User talk:Haiduc|talk]]) 14:06, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

== Got any info concerning feminist involvement in the 1977 federal child porn legislation? ==

[[Nancy Whittier]] claims, "All congressional hearings that addressed pornography between 1977 and 1983 did so through the lens of child abuse". She also says, "between 1982-1988, feminists and conservatives were both highly mobilized on the issue and gained extensive congressional attention, federal action, and discursive change. Pornography sparked widespread response from the federal government in the Attorney General's Commission on Pornography, numerous congressional subcommittee hearings, and expanded enforcement divisions within several federal agencies. During this period, feminist frames emphasizing harms to women gained ground and legal obscenity enforcement grew." [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 22:00, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

== How do I leave Boywiki? ==

I am sorry, but I would like to leave Boywiki. I oppose what it teaches. To me, the harm Adult/child sexual relationships do to children is a good reason to oppose this kind of activity. I am very sorry. Please don't be upset with me. How do I leave Boywiki? I wish the best for you all. [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 00:45, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:I assume that you could just stop posting and I am not sure BoyWiki "teaches" anything and is simply a record or archive.--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 10:27, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

::O.K. Just one more question. Is Boywiki legal in Canada? [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 19:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:::'''I am not an expert on Canadian law and can't give legal advice.''' Can you be arrested for having a dissenting or unpopular opinion in Canada? Ex: In Russia and other European countries, you can't support gay rights or anything that promotes homosexuality in their opinion. Socrates was convicted of "both corrupting the minds of the youth of Athens and of impiety (asebeia, "not believing in the gods of the state"),and as a punishment sentenced to death" for questioning the established belief system. He subsequently drank a mixture containing poison hemlock rather than go into exile. I suppose it depends on what risks a person is willing to take. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 23:36, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

:Why leave, rather than to try make the appropriate edits to ensure BoyWiki does not appear to be advocating either stance? You have the ability to make edits to content so that it does not encourage or "approve" of sexual contact with children, yet choose not to? BoyWiki is volunteer-run. What articles suggest that adult-child sexual relations are positive? [[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] ([[User talk:FalseAlias|talk]]) 00:21, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

== Making Boywiki more nuteral ==

Hi, [[Etenne]], I am still planning on leaving Boywiki, but I was talking to [[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] and I suggested ways to make Boywiki more neutral. I said, "It would be good to include the opinions of different groups relating to pedophilia: (Virtuous pedophiles supporting and Anti-Contact MAPS), '''groups I strongly support'''," and explain their point-of-view on Boywiki. What do you think? Also, is holding the view that adult-child sex as o.k. or any form of Pedophile Advocacy legal in Canada? [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 18:08, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
:I don't have a problem with that other then the use of the word Pro-contact which is a derogatory term. I am not pro-contact, I am pro-love.You can replace that word with ''others who hold various differing opinions''. Again, I am not a legal expert and can not give advice on Canadian law. Plus, it is a very bad idea to take legal advice over the internet. If you have questions, contact a competent legal professional. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 11:37, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
::O.K. Thank you very much. I won't use the terms Pro-contact and Anti-contact in editing articles. Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable editing or having an account on Boywiki. Please don't take this personally. I am sorry, but I feel that I should part ways with Boywiki. Thank you for helping me. [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 21:46, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

== Hey, still around? ==

Hey Etenne, are you still around? I'd like to add a picture to the [[https://www.boywiki.org/en/MAPs_irl MAPs irl]] article I created here, and I don't have permission to upload files.

[[User:Hikari-again|Hikari-again]] ([[User talk:Hikari-again|talk]]) 05:57, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

:Echoing hikari's question: you still around? [[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] ([[User talk:FalseAlias|talk]]) 22:43, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

:Bump. [[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] ([[User talk:FalseAlias|talk]]) 20:43, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
::Kind of, sort of..... I check in everyday but I haven't been doing that much.

== Message for Dragonlover ==

Hey Etenne, hope you're doing alright. Dragonlover's having trouble logging into his BoyWiki account and can't reset his password as he's not receiving a reset email. Would you know how to help him?
Thanks,
Hikari
[[User:hikari-again|hikari-again]] ([[User talk:hikari-again|talk]]) 22:45, 27 Dec 2019 (UTC)

== Status of BoyChat, BoyLinks, and FreeSpirits sites ==

Hi Etenne, and hopefully others.

I've observed that BoyChat, BoyLinks, and the main FreeSpirits site, are all currently non-functional. Could we know what's going on with these sites? Should we be concerned?

Thanks.
~FA, and presumably other concerned persons.
[[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] ([[User talk:FalseAlias|talk]]) 04:12, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

== Request to move the pages of a category ==

Welcome back to BoyWiki, Etenne. I'm Dandelion. I hope you are in good health.

I made this same request to FalseAlias a couple of weeks ago, but he seems to be unavailable at the moment, and I consider that, in his absence, you are the right person to ask for this big favor.

Last month I changed the name of the category "Boylove Sourcebook" to "Boylove Documentary Sourcebook":

https://www.boywiki.org/en/Category:Boylove_Documentary_Sourcebook

For the sake of consistency, I would be very grateful if you could rename the pages it contains, replacing the acronym between parentheses at the beginning of their titles with the new name of the category, that is, from "(BLSB)" to "(Boylove Documentary Sourcebook)", as in this page:

https://www.boywiki.org/en/(Boylove_Documentary_Sourcebook)_-_The_First_Gay_Experience_of_Gad_Beck

I'm aware that the pages in the category are numerous, so even if you could only rename a few of them every so often, at least until FalseAlias comes back, I would really appreciate it.

Have a nice day, and sorry for the trouble. [[User:Dandelion|Dandelion]] ([[User talk:Dandelion|talk]]) 13:05, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
::I will try to help out but my time is also limited and I am trying to get the news and main page updated. On that note, also is there some pages that you think are exp. good for me to add to New or improved articles on the main page? --[[Etenne]]

:::Thank you very much for your response.

:::In answer to your question, I consider that the article on boylove would be a nice introduction to newcomers:

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/Boylove

:::Regarding the pages in the "Boylove Documentary Sourcebook" category, I think any of the following could be a nice addition:

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Age-Structured_Male_Homosexual_Activity_in_Early_Modern_Spain

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Age-Structured_Male_Homosexual_Activity_in_Renaissance_Florence

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Intergenerational_Homosexual_Relationships_between_%22Jockers%22_and_%22Punks%22_in_the_Early_20th-Century_Northwestern_United_States

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Nine_Cases_of_Adolescent_Boys_Engaged_in_Sexual_Activity_with_Adult_Males_in_the_United_States

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Popular_Attitudes_toward_Intergenerational_Male_Homosexual_Encounters_in_Interwar_London

:::I hope you find these recommendations useful. Best wishes. [[User:Dandelion|Dandelion]] ([[User talk:Dandelion|talk]]) 04:49, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

== Welcome back ==

I was glad to read your message on BoyChat and to see you're back. Then I thought: is there any hope left that the French BoyWiki will survive? :-/

Bron disappeared, I don't know when, why nor where. So did the French tech Pinocchio, which is a great loss. Some rare contributors obstinately continued creating pages on the French wiki between 2015 and 2019. But now I think they are disheartened because of the recent and sudden software change, that ruined all the formatting we had made on a lot of pages (thanks to Pinocchio's coding extensions).

Now it seems that the Council's page doesn't work anymore -- or am I wrong?

If you can be of some help, I'd like to write more to you through a secure mailbox.

[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 21:28, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
:I categorized all the daily pages of the French Agora, from December 7, 2008 to July 9, 2014 (most of them were difficult to find before this categorization): [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Agora Agora]
:Now everybody can see the really tough job that had been made by many contributors of the French BoyWiki, especially by the tech Pinocchio. It is not acceptable that such a job is destroyed after every update or server change, as exposed here: [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/BoyWiki:Agora/28_septembre_2020 Modifications intempestives] (written more than eight months ago – nobody even bothered to answer).
:But do French-speaking writings matter?... :-/
:[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 13:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

:"But do French-speaking writings matter?" Well, I suppose that depends on who you ask. I would hope they matter to other French-speaking people and writers. I still don't have e-mail yet. Yeah, the upgrades do mess things up a bit but there is no way around that.
:[[User:Etenne|Etenne]]

::Thank you for answering.
::The true problem is: when Wikipedia runs an update of MediaWiki, all features already installed are kept and perform correctly; but when BoyWiki is updated, almost all features created by a tech are suppressed. Why?
::This is not "messing things up a bit", but destroying things a lot. :-( As I said before, when contributors see this, they are disheartened.
::I hope you can contact somebody who steps in on this wrong update process. As for me, I know nobody, and can do nothing: my only competence is to write about cultural boy-love topics. If "there is no way around" to keep my job in a good state and appearance, well... I will finally recognize that I was wrong to spend so much time and energy for it. :-(((
::[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 22:48, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Talk:Etenne

2021-06-19T13:56:43Z

Caprineus: m

Talk:Etenne

2021-06-19T13:55:42Z

Caprineus: Links to the French BoyWiki

==Subpages==
*[[Talk:Etenne/subpage1]]
*[[BoyWiki:Etenne's Palaestra]]
* [[User:Etenne/temp/MBM]]

----

----

==To all users==
It would be a good idea to review this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

In short, the neutrality of point of view leads to an objective, "scientific" discourse, whereas non-neutrality leads to one-sided views and propaganda.

An important point is perhaps to understand that specific sympathies are not incompatible with a neutral point of view: you can like a country, a person, an amorous preference, and nevertheless be able of an objective discourse about it.

Only objectivity is credible. That's why it is vital for BoyWiki. We don't "promote", we explain and illustrate. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

----

----
'''Please ask yourself before hitting the post button'''

# '''Dose this have a cultural or historical [[BoyWiki:Relevance policy|relavance to boylove]]?'''
# '''By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?'''

== To all BoyWiki users:Naming ==

The convention for naming pages is that articles should be singular whereas categories should be plural.

*Names of topics and topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a BoyWiki. article. Examples: "Law" (which represents a body of knowledge), "France", "George W. Bush".

*Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland".

However, I am willing to hear counter arguments to this practice or suggestions before deciding what the policy should be --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 13:17, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

:Just yesterday I noticed that Wikipedia has categories with a singular title, e.g. [[wikipedia:Category:Vagina]]. Also, there are some plural article titles, e.g.[[wikipedia:Jews]]. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 15:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

::You can't figure out what those two (obvious, at least, to me) errors are due to? Uh... You certainly make up in glibness what you lack in perspicacity. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
:::Enlighten me. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
::::Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

== Adding a review ==

I'm about to type in a review of Show Me! In the journal Family Counselor, off of JStor. Before putting in that effort, I wanted to be sure you had no problem with it. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 16:39, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
:So long as it is not a copyright violation and appropriately referenced, it shouldn't be a problem. You can add excerpts etc... --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 18:21, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

It is a copyright violation. Including the Show Me! preface is one. I suspect I could easily find more. I'm pretty knowledgable about copyright and my recommendation is to just ignore it, especially since you have no commercial purpose. The worst that could happen is someone sends a letter asking that something be taken down. They aren't going to use their lawyers' time with a nonprofit individual user with no money who's not selling anything. It's not worth it to them. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 02:29, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

== Sex offender risk assessment ==

Can you please restore [[sex offender risk assessment]] to my userspace? Maybe it can eventually be improved to a point where it's suitable for mainspace. Thanks, [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 19:47, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

== Please fix categories for Child Rescue Coalition ==

I can't figure out what I did wrong. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 12:20, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
:You used the wrong brackets. I have done that before too--[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:46, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

== Relevance of CPS-related issues to boylove ==

Hey Etenne,

The anti-CPS movement doesn't have a wiki yet. To what extent, if any, would you consider [http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Miscellany:Transcript_of_CPS_Whistleblower_Carlos_Morales_at_Liberty_Fest_NC this type of content] relevant to boylove? (Currently it's hosted at Mises Wiki, which will eventually go defunct because the Mises Institute's unspoken policy is to neither maintain nor destroy the wiki, and it's gradually rotting as the code becomes more and more outdated and begins to malfunction, an example being the InstantCommons which no longer works after Wikimedia's shift from http to https.)

The way I look at it, CPS is going to have a chilling effect on free speech as they take away the kids of anyone who is too outspokenly opposed to the age of consent, or who admits to having pedophilic desires. An example would be [http://nathania.org/w/images/c/c1/Piper_Morgan_Sparrow_Faye_amended_petition.pdf this petition] stating, "It has been reported that Father has pedophilic desires. . . . It is alleged that Father has posted numerous online material expounding justifications for sexual relations between adults and children, placing the welfare of the subject Child at risk. . . . Father admits his pedophilic desires".

The site asks, "Please ask yourself before hitting the save button Does this have a cultural or historical relevance to boylove?" Culture consists of values and norms, so could potentially extend into the political and legal realms. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 17:43, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

== "Village pump"? ==

Di we have a page here for wiki-related discussions? __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 13:28, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

:Yes, https://www.boywiki.org/en/BoyWiki:Agora [[BoyWiki:Agora]] We are kind of into the ancient Greek culture :)--[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 13:42, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

::You are, huh? Who'd have thunk… ;-) __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 13:48, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

== Uploading? ==

Hello,

How can I upload a picture or two? [[User:Haiduc|Haiduc]] ([[User talk:Haiduc|talk]]) 17:49, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

:[[BoyWiki:Requests for file uploads]] --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 18:03, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

== Exempt regulars from CAPTCHA ==

I wonder if regulars could be exempted from having to fill out the CAPTCHA all the time? See [[mediawikiwiki:Manual:$wgAutopromote]] for more info on how to accomplish that. I was thinking that maybe editors who have, say, 1,000 edits and have been here for 100 days could be exempted from the CAPTCHA. Thanks. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 17:50, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

== Geez ==

These days, BoyChat is starting to have almost as much downtime as GirlChat. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 22:09, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, but it is good to have a break now and then..... I personally plan to get quite drunk tonight. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 22:29, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

== A vicious cycle ==

I want to donate to Free Spirits to help defend against DDoS attacks, but I guess the attackers took down the donation page too! [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:13, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
:Yes, and I do not know for how long it will be down. I will know more maybe by Monday. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 04:51, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
::[[wikipedia:List_of_Charlie_and_the_Chocolate_Factory_characters#Veruca_Salt|But I want BoyChat to be back up NOW!]] [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 15:52, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
:::The Tech. people are working on that but I have been given no ETA on when they will finish. When you are a BL, you learn to be patient :) --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 16:21, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
:::: BC will be back sometime on Monday, after the new security features are added. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 15:37, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::BoyChat is now back online--[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 20:22, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::The donation page still [https://www.boychat.org/messages/1466753.htm isn't working] beyond the first step of the pledge process though. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 22:30, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

== The donation page still isn't working! ==

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:10, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

:Yes, I know. I have no idea when it will be up and running again. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:41, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
::Is BoyChat going the way of Newgon? [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 01:47, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
::: No, just a minor annoyance. We BL's move slowly but we keep moving..... if you knew how many times BoyChat was in real danger of dying, you'd be amazed that we are still here 20 years later. Someday the antis may win but that day is not today or anytime soon. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 02:47, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

== NEVER GIVE UP ==

[http://childwiki.org/w/images/3/35/Screencapture-fsco-freespirits-info-fundraiser-pledge-1456191002922.png THERE'S ALWAYS A CHANCE THAT YOUR DREAMS CAN BECOME A REALITY]. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 01:32, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, I am not sure that is going to work but we will see. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 02:45, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
::Especially since I forgot my pledge number and never got an email, so now I have to do a new pledge. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 10:29, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

== Hi. I'm alive, and, well... ==

I've been very very busy preparing materials for uploading. Of course, having lost my Internet connection several months ago did put a small crimp in my uploading style. Now dozens of books are in the pipeline, most simply waiting for final proofreading...

Well, I'm "Internetized" again, as of about two hours ago. But I'm still too busy to contribute much here... sorry about that...

Anyway, I'm just saying "hello". I hope you're OK. You may have been wondering if I was still alive...

BTW-- I don't remember much of the Wiki coding that I had learned, so expect errors for awhile in anything I do contribute...

Cheers! À bientôt

[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 17:09, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

:I am glad you are doing well and look forward to your future contributions to BoyWiki. I suppose that wiki code is rather like riding a bike [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px]] ... --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 17:52, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

::Nice! What other "smileys" do we have available?

::[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 13:58, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
:::That and just the regular one [[File:Face-smile.png|30 px]] are the only ones I have added so far. I just happened to like that one and decided to add it to my signature (until I get bored with it) Collecting BL related graphics is a hobby. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px]] 14:10, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

== Problems with User4 ==

I have been working on the article on Browser security, which I think I know something about both technically and socially. (I went through having my computer seized and searched.) He comes in and puts in things that are just wrong, such as "TOR is secure". We're having a low key edit war and I'm pretty frustrated about it. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 01:26, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

: I wish I had an easy answer for you or could say what is right but that is way beyond my area of expertise. I am sorry you are feeling frustrated. Sometimes it is difficult to work together when both people believe deeply that they are right. I don't have an answer. I do appreciate how you must be feeling and the work you do here --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px]] 02:48, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

== What to work on ==

Where would my finite efforts be most useful? I have a Ph.D. In history/literature; also very good at English and editing. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 01:54, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

:Hard to answer as I am not sure what your areas of interest are... my advice is to write about what you are passionate about. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px]] 02:41, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

== You might want to help out some BLs by posting ==

My article (it's pretty much finished--I've picked my brain for everything I could think of), "BoyLover mistakes leading to arrest and conviction" to the BC thread:

BCers convicted of crime: How did you get caught? - qwolk 2016-March-23 22:58:54, Wednesday (13)

https://www.boychat.org/messages/1469554.htm

Or, then again, you might ''not'' want to. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 20:28, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

== Something for the French BoyWiki, perhaps? ==

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kkMGFcTJ8fIJ:http://mo.michelonfray.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Le-cheval-de-Vincennes1.pdf%2B%22Une+erotique+puerile%22+filetype:pdf&hl=en&gbv=1&filter=0&&ct=clnk

http://mo.michelonfray.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Le-cheval-de-Vincennes1.pdf

[[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 19:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

== How do I "edit" an Agora entry to reply? ==

Your last entry was, "The only advice on that I can give is that it maybe..." but I see no way to edit that entry to reply. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 15:58, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, that thing works with JS (don't blame me... yell at Conner) you are going to have to go to the page directly [[BoyWiki:Agora/3_April_2016]] I believe. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 17:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

== I need a really small favor ==

I need to know if archive.org ''actually caches'' .PDF files, or if it simply ''links'' to the website. If they ''actually cache'' the .PDF files, then those files will be permanently available, even if that keepandshare account is closed. If the .PDF files are ''not'' cached, then--if the account is closed--the files will be lost.

If you click the following link, my question will be answered. Thanks! (You don't have to actually save the file when given the choice--just click on the link, then close the "save as" popup, and then close the browser window.)

https//www.marti2u.keepandsare.com

Let me know if you ''do'' do me this favor, OK?, because otherwise I won't know how archive.org is handling things... Thanks [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 14:15, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
:It seems to work. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 15:30, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

::I'm checking out to see what actually happened... I don't know yet... Thanks much for your help! (put another URL above, so no-one will accidentally repeat your test and screw things up...) [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 15:41, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

:::Well, it looks like it was a "failure," meaning that archive.org ''does not'' cache the actual .PDF files themselves, but it just caches the ''links'' to them at keepandshare. That's a real shame... if the "marti" sites close, then the files will be lost forever... Now I'm really discouraged... I don't know what to do... :-( [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 16:34, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

== Hi. I know you're very busy, but I'd just like to point out that you haven't yet responded to a comment about Agora that I made ==

https://www.boywiki.org/en/User5/Draft/Agora_without_Javascript Thanks. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:02, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

== I made a sample "Here's some help" page for Buster's user page. ==

I think you can probably find it. Oh, where is everybody today? I'm feeling lonely, here all by myself... [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 04:16, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
:I am sorry you were feeling lonely but some days, I actually have to do real work.( which I am paying for today) I have a number of jobs that I have to get done (and several little jobs I want to get done) but unfortunately, the weather this year has been less then cooperative. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 13:01, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

== The Main Page of BoyWiki looks very nice! ==

I just wanted to let you know my opinion of it. You put a lot of work into it, I know. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:38, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

== User4 ==

Can't you just block him for a month or something? He's not that bad of a guy. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 00:15, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
:Yes, I wish that were possible however he refuses to take direction, he does things that I ask him not to do. Right now, I can't be around to monitor BoyWiki as often, as it is my busy time of year (which was the major factor in my decision). I simple can't trust him to be responsible. If he would stick to writing about books and other things of interest, I would not have a problem (so long as he did so within the copyright laws) but he has made it very clear to me that he will not do that and he doesn't care what I think and is going to do what he pleases... and that being the case, he is now more of a liability then an asset. The bottom line is that he can think that I am wrong all he likes, he can think I am an asshole, but he needs to understand that I am the person in charge and when I say don't do it then don't do it! I have always thought that User4 had a good deal to offer BoyWiki (and still do) but if he can't work within the structure, it is pointless to continue. I am done arguing, I am done fighting. I simple don't have the time or energy to do it. I have never thought user4 was "that bad of a guy" but BoyWiki is highly structured (i.e. it is not a message board) and the type of writing that is required is also structured (formula writing) and is not something that is in everyone's wheelhouse. Sometimes you have to work inside the proverbial box and user4 has proven to me that he is either unwilling or unable to do that. However, I will think about it and maybe when I am feeling less pressed and overwhelmed, my heart will be less hardened on this subject. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 02:51, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
::"it is my busy time of year" 3-6 months block, then? If this were Wikipedia, he would probably just create another account and edit using that, but it isn't possible here. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 10:03, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

== English ==
Home page is two words.

Degrees of anonymity exist in English. Doing somethng, you can be more anonymous than before. What user4 calls anonymity we would call "total anonymity". So it's not that you have to choose between anonymity and non-anonymity. Changes made in TOR, which is far from totally secure, and browser security. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 22:22, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

==user4 is dangerous==
His inaccurate changes to articles on computer security - basically portraying things as better and safer than they are - are putting boylovers in danger. I suggest you block him.

Do you want references on Tor's lack of security?

Computers become rapidly more powerful (Moore's Law). Thus they are more and more able to penetrate encryption. For more info, look up prime numbers under Cryptography.

You may not know whether to believe me or not, but isn't it safer to assume I'm right? [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 22:50, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
:User4 is currently banned.--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 13:18, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

== Deletion of [[Internet security tutorial]] ==

I believe this article should be archived (deleted). It was written in 2009, is full of outdated and other misinformation (and grammar/spelling mistakes), and I don't think it's worth the effort to edit and update it. The very concept of a security tutorial which, if followed, will make you secure is a big miThe situation changes significantly at least every year, sometimes several times a year. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 11:38, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

== Suggest deletion of [[What if Astrologers took over the government?]] ==

Another User4 article, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing (a quote from Macbeth by Shakespeare).

I made a mistake referring to prime numbers. I should have said factorials. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 11:50, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

== Ottoman picture ==
I have some nineteenth-century ones that must be public domain. But how do I get them to you? In fact one would be good for the article. But I have no idea what the next step is.

I have more to do on the computer security articles. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 12:30, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
:Ether email picture to me at etenne@boywiki.org or post it some place where I can download it. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 13:41, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

:: I cannot figure out how to do this without leaving a trail back to my IP. Is there no direct way to upload a file to Boywiki? [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 14:18, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
:::No, most people email them to me or provide me the URL where I can retrieve them. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 14:25, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4794/396/1600/kocek.0.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Turkish_19th_century_kocek_dancer_01.jpg/200px-Turkish_19th_century_kocek_dancer_01.jpg

This is hand-colored:
http://babayagamusic.com/Encyclopedic-Dictionary-Ethnic-Arts/images/Ottoman-kocek-dancer-late-nineteenth-century-320x504.jpg

This says "danseuse" (female dancer, male is "danseur") but that can't be right. A female wouldn't wear this type of outfit. The kocek dancers were all male.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Turkish_19th_century_kocek_dancer_02.jpg [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 17:05, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
:Some of these we already have: https://www.boywiki.org/media/File:Turkish_-_Dancing_Kocek_-_Late_19th_c_-_wiki.jpg
https://www.boywiki.org/media/File:Turkish_19th_century_kocek_dancer_01.jpg
--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 17:56, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

== Government ccontact ==

Do you receive hate mail? Get contacted by any type of government body? Not just law enforcement.

I'm concerned about security. I guess there's at least one sheriff deputy among the users?

You have let an identity detail slip. Is there a way I can tell you other than posting it here (which I'm not going to do)..[[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 19:01, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
:''Do you receive hate mail?'' NO, I never get hate mail. ''Get contacted by any type of government body? Not just law enforcement'' No, I have never been contacted by any agency of any government or any agency of law enforcement.--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|50 px|link=Etenne]] 19:48, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

== Being offline ==

Is there anyplace I can read what happened? [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 07:13, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
:I am not sure what you mean... you mean about the outage?--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 18:50, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

::Yes I mean about theoutage. [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 20:30, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

== Thanks so much for putting up zethos ==

Sure missed boywiki while it was gone! [[User:Wanker|Wanker]] ([[User talk:Wanker|talk]]) 20:29, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

== Can we have a page about BoyChat's current status? ==

E.g. how to get to it? [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 21:05, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
: I updated the BoyChat page now with two ways to get to it. [[User:Hikari-again|hikari-again]] ([[User talk:Hikari-again|talk]]) 1:23:45 AM Monday, August 28, 2017 (UTC)
:: I was told what was going on today and really the problem could be a result of many different issues... my guess is that there is a cable loose. However as this is Free Spirits, first we have to identify the person with the tech. skills to plug in a cable and the person with the authority to tell him to go plug it back in. This should go relatively quickly. I only anticipate that it will take a dozen or so meetings.--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 02:41, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

== Is there an article about boys' hitting on men? ==
I know there's http://www.childwiki.nathania.org/wiki/Testimony:_CSA_(Children%27s_Sexual_Advances)
[[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 05:26, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

== Dost thou? ==

Just asking.

H.
:Not understanding what you are asking --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 13:59, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

::J'ai essaye de t'ecrire. Tu sais ou me trouver. [[User:Haiduc|Haiduc]] ([[User talk:Haiduc|talk]]) 14:06, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

== Got any info concerning feminist involvement in the 1977 federal child porn legislation? ==

[[Nancy Whittier]] claims, "All congressional hearings that addressed pornography between 1977 and 1983 did so through the lens of child abuse". She also says, "between 1982-1988, feminists and conservatives were both highly mobilized on the issue and gained extensive congressional attention, federal action, and discursive change. Pornography sparked widespread response from the federal government in the Attorney General's Commission on Pornography, numerous congressional subcommittee hearings, and expanded enforcement divisions within several federal agencies. During this period, feminist frames emphasizing harms to women gained ground and legal obscenity enforcement grew." [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 22:00, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

== How do I leave Boywiki? ==

I am sorry, but I would like to leave Boywiki. I oppose what it teaches. To me, the harm Adult/child sexual relationships do to children is a good reason to oppose this kind of activity. I am very sorry. Please don't be upset with me. How do I leave Boywiki? I wish the best for you all. [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 00:45, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:I assume that you could just stop posting and I am not sure BoyWiki "teaches" anything and is simply a record or archive.--[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 10:27, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

::O.K. Just one more question. Is Boywiki legal in Canada? [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 19:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
:::'''I am not an expert on Canadian law and can't give legal advice.''' Can you be arrested for having a dissenting or unpopular opinion in Canada? Ex: In Russia and other European countries, you can't support gay rights or anything that promotes homosexuality in their opinion. Socrates was convicted of "both corrupting the minds of the youth of Athens and of impiety (asebeia, "not believing in the gods of the state"),and as a punishment sentenced to death" for questioning the established belief system. He subsequently drank a mixture containing poison hemlock rather than go into exile. I suppose it depends on what risks a person is willing to take. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 23:36, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

:Why leave, rather than to try make the appropriate edits to ensure BoyWiki does not appear to be advocating either stance? You have the ability to make edits to content so that it does not encourage or "approve" of sexual contact with children, yet choose not to? BoyWiki is volunteer-run. What articles suggest that adult-child sexual relations are positive? [[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] ([[User talk:FalseAlias|talk]]) 00:21, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

== Making Boywiki more nuteral ==

Hi, [[Etenne]], I am still planning on leaving Boywiki, but I was talking to [[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] and I suggested ways to make Boywiki more neutral. I said, "It would be good to include the opinions of different groups relating to pedophilia: (Virtuous pedophiles supporting and Anti-Contact MAPS), '''groups I strongly support'''," and explain their point-of-view on Boywiki. What do you think? Also, is holding the view that adult-child sex as o.k. or any form of Pedophile Advocacy legal in Canada? [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 18:08, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
:I don't have a problem with that other then the use of the word Pro-contact which is a derogatory term. I am not pro-contact, I am pro-love.You can replace that word with ''others who hold various differing opinions''. Again, I am not a legal expert and can not give advice on Canadian law. Plus, it is a very bad idea to take legal advice over the internet. If you have questions, contact a competent legal professional. --[[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 11:37, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
::O.K. Thank you very much. I won't use the terms Pro-contact and Anti-contact in editing articles. Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable editing or having an account on Boywiki. Please don't take this personally. I am sorry, but I feel that I should part ways with Boywiki. Thank you for helping me. [[User:Lister34|Lister34]] ([[User talk:Lister34|talk]]) 21:46, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

== Hey, still around? ==

Hey Etenne, are you still around? I'd like to add a picture to the [[https://www.boywiki.org/en/MAPs_irl MAPs irl]] article I created here, and I don't have permission to upload files.

[[User:Hikari-again|Hikari-again]] ([[User talk:Hikari-again|talk]]) 05:57, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

:Echoing hikari's question: you still around? [[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] ([[User talk:FalseAlias|talk]]) 22:43, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

:Bump. [[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] ([[User talk:FalseAlias|talk]]) 20:43, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
::Kind of, sort of..... I check in everyday but I haven't been doing that much.

== Message for Dragonlover ==

Hey Etenne, hope you're doing alright. Dragonlover's having trouble logging into his BoyWiki account and can't reset his password as he's not receiving a reset email. Would you know how to help him?
Thanks,
Hikari
[[User:hikari-again|hikari-again]] ([[User talk:hikari-again|talk]]) 22:45, 27 Dec 2019 (UTC)

== Status of BoyChat, BoyLinks, and FreeSpirits sites ==

Hi Etenne, and hopefully others.

I've observed that BoyChat, BoyLinks, and the main FreeSpirits site, are all currently non-functional. Could we know what's going on with these sites? Should we be concerned?

Thanks.
~FA, and presumably other concerned persons.
[[User:FalseAlias|FalseAlias]] ([[User talk:FalseAlias|talk]]) 04:12, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

== Request to move the pages of a category ==

Welcome back to BoyWiki, Etenne. I'm Dandelion. I hope you are in good health.

I made this same request to FalseAlias a couple of weeks ago, but he seems to be unavailable at the moment, and I consider that, in his absence, you are the right person to ask for this big favor.

Last month I changed the name of the category "Boylove Sourcebook" to "Boylove Documentary Sourcebook":

https://www.boywiki.org/en/Category:Boylove_Documentary_Sourcebook

For the sake of consistency, I would be very grateful if you could rename the pages it contains, replacing the acronym between parentheses at the beginning of their titles with the new name of the category, that is, from "(BLSB)" to "(Boylove Documentary Sourcebook)", as in this page:

https://www.boywiki.org/en/(Boylove_Documentary_Sourcebook)_-_The_First_Gay_Experience_of_Gad_Beck

I'm aware that the pages in the category are numerous, so even if you could only rename a few of them every so often, at least until FalseAlias comes back, I would really appreciate it.

Have a nice day, and sorry for the trouble. [[User:Dandelion|Dandelion]] ([[User talk:Dandelion|talk]]) 13:05, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
::I will try to help out but my time is also limited and I am trying to get the news and main page updated. On that note, also is there some pages that you think are exp. good for me to add to New or improved articles on the main page? --[[Etenne]]

:::Thank you very much for your response.

:::In answer to your question, I consider that the article on boylove would be a nice introduction to newcomers:

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/Boylove

:::Regarding the pages in the "Boylove Documentary Sourcebook" category, I think any of the following could be a nice addition:

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Age-Structured_Male_Homosexual_Activity_in_Early_Modern_Spain

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Age-Structured_Male_Homosexual_Activity_in_Renaissance_Florence

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Intergenerational_Homosexual_Relationships_between_%22Jockers%22_and_%22Punks%22_in_the_Early_20th-Century_Northwestern_United_States

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Nine_Cases_of_Adolescent_Boys_Engaged_in_Sexual_Activity_with_Adult_Males_in_the_United_States

:::https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_Popular_Attitudes_toward_Intergenerational_Male_Homosexual_Encounters_in_Interwar_London

:::I hope you find these recommendations useful. Best wishes. [[User:Dandelion|Dandelion]] ([[User talk:Dandelion|talk]]) 04:49, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

== Welcome back ==

I was glad to read your message on BoyChat and to see you're back. Then I thought: is there any hope left that the French BoyWiki will survive? :-/

Bron disappeared, I don't know when, why nor where. So did the French tech Pinocchio, which is a great loss. Some rare contributors obstinately continued creating pages on the French wiki between 2015 and 2019. But now I think they are disheartened because of the recent and sudden software change, that ruined all the formatting we had made on a lot of pages (thanks to Pinocchio's coding extensions).

Now it seems that the Council's page doesn't work anymore -- or am I wrong?

If you can be of some help, I'd like to write more to you through a secure mailbox.

[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 21:28, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
:I categorized all the daily pages of the French Agora, from September 7, 2008 to July 9, 2014 (most of them were difficult to find before this categorization): [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Agora Agora]
:Now everybody can see the really tough job that had been made by many contributors of the French BoyWiki, especially by the tech Pinocchio. It is not acceptable that such a job is destroyed after every update or server change, as exposed here: [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/BoyWiki:Agora/28_septembre_2020 Modifications intempestives] (written more than eight months ago – nobody even bothered to answer).
:But do French-speaking writings matter?... :-/
:[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 13:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Talk:Etenne

2021-06-13T21:28:24Z

Caprineus: Welcome back

Historical boylove relationships in Japan

2014-06-29T15:08:24Z

Caprineus: Link to the French version (not completely translated)

[[Image:120px-Yoshitoshi Ariwara Narihira.jpg|right|200px|Ariwara no Narihira]]
==Asuka period (538 to 710 ce)==

*Emperor Tenji and Fujiwara no Kamatari<ref>Oyamada Tomokiyo, " Nanshoku-kō ", 『男色考』 </ref>

==Nara period (710 to 794 ce)==

*Ōtomo no Yakamochi and Fujiwara no Kusumaro
:*The youth was the son of Fujiwara no Nakamaro a.k.a.Emi no Oshikatsu.
*Ōtomo no Yakamochi and Kon no Myogun or Yo no Myogun
:*Their mutual love poems appear in the oldest existing collection of Japanese poetry, "Man'yōshū".
* Kūkai (Kōbō-Daishi) and Taihan
:*Kukai was the legendary founder of the Japanese male love tradition, placing this relationship around 788.
*Saichō (Dengyō Daishi) and Taihan
:*Although Taihan was Saicho's favorite pupil and promised to be the successor of archibishop in Tendai Buddhism, also around 788, he went to study Shingon Buddhism under Kukai. No matter how insistently Saicho asked Taihan to come back, his entreaties were useless (several letters are extant). Wholly devoted to Kukai, Taihan became one of the Ten Disciples of Kukai and never went back to Saicho. Indignant, Saicho severed his connection with Kukai, after which these two greatest founders of Japanese Buddhism sects remained at odds.
==Heian period (794 to 1185 ce}==

*Shinga and Ariwara no Narihira
:*The relationship was between a bishop and a young aristocrat. Narihira, famous for his beauty, was a grandson of Emperor Heizei, while Bishop Shinga（801 － 879) was a younger brother and disciple of Kūkai.
*Fujiwara no Yorimichi and Minamoto no Nagasue
:*The Regent Yorimichi loved the boy exceedingly, therefore Nagasue was not admitted to celebrate his coming-of-age ceremony (and wear adult attire and tonsure) for a long time, although he had fully grown up.<ref>"古事談" ("Kojidan") </ref>
*Sensai-Shonin and Umewaka
:*Sensai (?-1127) was a high priest of Enryakuji temple, and Umewaka was his chigo (acolyte), and of noble birth.
*Emperor Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Akitaka
:*Emperor Shirakawa loved many handsome boys, especially Fujiwara no Akitaka who was called to the Emperor's presence every night, and all of whose requests were granted; Akitaka was nicknamed "Regent of the Night".
*Emperor Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Munemichi(Akomaru)
*Emperor Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Nobumichi
:*Nobumichi was the son of Fujiwara no Munemichi, a former wakashu of the emperor.
*Emperor Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Narimichi
:*Narimichi was another son of Fujiwara no Munemichi.
*Emperor Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Akisue
*Emperor Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Nagazane
:*Nagazane was a son of Fujiwara no Akisue, the emperor´s former wakashu.
*Emperor Shirakawa and Minamoto no Toshiaki
*Emperor Shirakawa and Taira no Masamori
:*Masamori would be, in due course, the grandfather of Taira no Kiyomori.
*Emperor Shirakawa and Taira no Tametoshi
*Emperor Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Morishige
*Emperor Shirakawa and Tachibana no Yorisato (Imainumaru）
*Emperor Shirakawa and Jiromaru
*Minamoto no Arihito and Ajimaru
:*Arihito was the nephew of Emperor Shirakawa.
*Emperor Toba and Fujiwara no Ienari
:*Emperor Toba loved many beautiful youths, from aristocrats to common dancers, most of all Fujiwara no Ienari, who monopolized the political　power.　The confrontation between Ienari and Fujiwara no Yorinaga was one of the　 causes of The Hōgen Rebellion.<ref>"台記" or "The Diary of Fujiwara no Yorinaga , "続古事談", "Zoku-Kojidan" </ref>
*Emperor Toba and Fujiwara no Nobumichi
:* Nobumichi had also been the beloved of Emperor Shirakawa.
*Emperor Toba and Fujiwara no Narichika
:*The youth was the son of Fujiwara no Ienari, a former wakashu of the emperor.
*Emperor Toba and Hata no Kimiharu
*Emperor Toba and Koma no Norusuke
*Emperor Toba and Saigyō Hōshi
*Emperor Go-Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Nobuyori
:*Emperor Go-Shirakawa had many love relationships with handsome youths, including several nobles and some samurai. The Emperor dearly loved Nobuyori. His boundless love toward his favorite boy was one of the major causes of the Heiji Rebellion.
*Emperor Go-Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Narichika
*Emperor Go-Shirakawa and Taira no Sukemori
*Emperor Go-Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Motomichi (Konoe Motomichi)
*Emperor Go-Shirakawa and Taira no Narifusa
*Emperor Go-Shirakawa and Fujiwara no Mitsuyoshi
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Fujiwara no Tadamasa
:*Fujiwara no Yorinaga was a famous male-lover. In his diary there are many mentions on his erotic life with many men and boys. Fujiwara no Tadamasa (1129 - 1193), a young nobleman, was not only one of Yorinaga's lovers, but also Yorinaga's father Fujiwara no Tadazane's lover.<ref>"台記" or "The Diary of Fujiwara no Yorinaga" </ref>
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Fujiwara no Tamemichi
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Fujiwara no Kin'yoshi
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Fujiwara no Ieaki
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Fujiwara no Narichika
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Fujiwara no Takasue
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Minamoto no Narimasa
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Minamoto no Yoshikata
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Saeki no Sadatoshi
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Hata no Kanetoo
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Hata no Kimiharu
*Fujiwara no Yorinaga and Kimikata
:*Kimikata had been a male-dancer in the Shitennō-ji Temple.
*Taira no Kiyomori and Matsuoo
*Kumagai Naozane and Taira no Atsumori
*Mongaku (high priest) and Taira no Takakiyo(Rokudai)
*Shunkan and Arioo
*Saito Musashibō Benkei and Minamoto no Yoshitsune
*Minamoto no Yoshinaka and Imai Kanehira
:*Yoshinaka adored Imai so much that he wanted to die with him since they were children according to the Heike Monogatari and Zeami Motokiyo's nohplay "Kanehira". In the end they both died together in Awazu.

==Kamakura period (1185–1333 ce)==

*Emperor Go-Toba and Fujiwara no Hideyoshi (1184-1240, 藤原秀能)
*Emperor Go-Toba and Minamoto no Michiteru (1187-1243）
*Minamoto no Yoriie and Nakano Yoshinari
*Minamoto no Sanetomo and Wada Tomomori<ref>"吾妻鏡","Azuma Kagami)" </ref>
*Unkei and Hōjumaru
*Hōjō Yoshitoki and Fukami Saburoo
:*Yoshitoki was killed by Saburoo out of nanshoku jealousy .
*Hōjō Takatoki and Sasaki Takauji
*Yoshida Kenkō and Myōmatsumaru<ref>"本朝浜千鳥", Honcho Hamachidori </ref>
*Emperor Go-Daigo and Fujiwara Tametsuna
*Emperor Go-Daigo and Hino Kumawakamaru (Hino Kunimitsu)<ref>"塩尻", Shiojiri, "太平記", Taiheiki, "麓の色", Fumoto no iro </ref>
*Emperor Go-Komatsu and Umewaka
*Ikkyū and Shōben
:*Ikkyū was the son of Emperor Go-Komatsu.

*Jikyū( priest of Kenchō-ji) and Shiragiku (or Shiragikumaru, beautiful chigo)

==Muromachi period (1337 to 1573 ce)==
*Ashikaga Takauji and Aeba Myōzurumaru (Aeba Ujinao)
*Ashikaga Yoshimitsu and Zeami Motokiyo
:*In the shudō tradition, most shōguns took boys as lovers. Zeami caught the eye of his patron (then 16) at 11, in 1374. He became a playwright, father of Noh theater.
*Nijō Yoshimoto and Zeami Motokiyo
*Ashikaga Yoshimitsu and Ogamaru (boy-dancer)
*Ashikaga Yoshimitsu and Dōami
*Ashikaga Yoshimitsu and Rokkaku Mitsutaka or Kamejumaru (1365-1416)
*Ashikaga Yoshimochi and Akamatsu Mochisada (?-1427)
:*Shogun Yoshimochi, son of Yoshimitsu, granted lands which his beloved mismanaged. His own family denounced him, and he had to commit seppuku by order of his lover, the shogun.
*Ashikaga Yoshimochi and Zōami
* Ashikaga Yoshinori and Akamatsu Sadamura (nephew of Akamatsu Mochisada)
:*For love of Sadamura, Shogun Yoshinori lost his life in 1441, assassinated by Akamatsu Mitsusuke , whose lands he had wanted to take and give to Sadamura.
*Ashikaga Yoshinori and Otoami ( adopted son of Zeami Motokiyo ).
*Ashikaga Yoshimasa and Akamatsu Norinao
:*Norinao, granted lands at the time in possession of Yamana Sozen, was attacked by the latter and took his own life. The conflict ballooned into the Ōnin civil war of 1467.
*Ashikaga Yoshihisa and Yūki Hisataka
*Ashikaga Yoshihisa and Hirosawa Hisamasa or Kanze Hikojiro
*Hosokawa Katsumoto and Naitō Shirōzaemon
*Hosokawa Katsumoto and Akamatsu Masanori
:*Katsumoto's excessive love for the youth was one of the major causes of Ōnin War.<ref>"応仁前記"",Onin zenki" </ref>
*Hosokawa Katsumoto and Yokogoshi Matasaburō
*Hosokawa Masamoto and Hosokawa Sumiyuki (1489-1507, son of Kujō Masamoto)
*Hosokawa Takakuni and Yanagimoto Kenji
:*Takakuni, despite having sworn eternal love to Kenji, allowed Kenji's brother to be murdered. Later Kenji rose in vengeance against him with an army.
*Yanagimoto Kenji and Takahata Jinkurō
:*Knowing Kenji prepared a rebellion, Jinkuro vowed silence, but refused to break his allegiance to Lord Takakuni, warning Kenji that despite their love, he would not hesitate to kill him in battle.

==Sengoku period (1467–1573 ce)==

*Hōjō Ujiyasu and Hōjō Tsunashige
:*Hōjō Tsunashige was loved by both Hōjō Ujitsuna and Ujitsuna's son Hōjō Ujiyasu.
*Ōuchi Yoshioki (father of Ōuchi Yoshitaka) and Sue Yoshikiyo (elder brother of Sue Harukata) and Sue Harukata.
*Ōuchi Yoshitaka and Sue Harukata<ref> "大内義隆軍記","Ōuchi Yoshitaka Gunki" </ref>
*Ōuchi Yoshitaka and two sons of Mōri Motonari ; Mōri Takamoto and Kobayakawa Takakage.
*Ōuchi Yoshitaka and Sagara Taketo
*Saitō Dōsan and Toki Tarohoshimaru (son of Toki Yorinari )
*Takeda Shingen and Kosaka Masanobu
:*In 1543 the 22-year-old future Daimyo sealed a written vow of love (still in existence) with his 16-year-old retainer, who served him as samurai in battle and page in peacetime.<ref>Leupp, pp.53-54 </ref>
*Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kagetora (or Hōjō Ujihide; son of Hōjō Ujiyasu ).
:*Uesugi Kagetora was reputed to be the most handsome boy in Kantō region, so he was loved by both Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin.
*Uesugi Kenshin and Naoe Kanetsugu
Uesugi Kenshin and Kawada Nagachika （1545 － 1581）
:*Uesugi Kenshin, brave general and daimyo, made a sacred vow that he would not have sex with any woman, and he did not married(heterosexual marriage) throughout his life, like Epaminondas.Some maintain that Kenshin had sexual relation with 600 boys.<ref>"Shonen-ai no Renga Haikai shi" 1997, ISBN 4-8060-4623-x </ref>
*Uesugi Kenshin and his two adopted sons; Uesugi Kagekatsu (his nephew ) and Uesugi Kagetora (son of Hōjō Ujiyasu).
*Uesugi Kenshin and Iwai Tanbanokami
*Uesugi Kagekatsu and Naoe Kanetsugu
*Uesugi Kagekatsu and Kiyono Naganori （1573～1634）.
:*Uesugi Kagekatsu was exclusively fond of boys and abstained from relationship with ladies and women at all. At last, however, at the age of 50 , he got the only child Uesugi Sadakatsu by a fair woman in male attire, just like Al-Amin , Al-Hakam II and Muhammed VI (1360-1362).<ref>"Oueikei-gunki" </ref>
*Satake Yoshishige(1547-1612) and Ashina Moritaka
*Date Terumune and Katakura Kagetsuna
*Uragami Munekage and Ukita Naoie
*Miyoshi Nagayoshi and Matsunaga Hisahide
*Matsunaga Hisahide and Yagyū Shigeyoshi (younger brother of Yagyū Muneyoshi)
*Amago Haruhisa and Ushio buzen'nokami
*Amago Katsuhisa and Yamanaka Shikanosuke
*Ashikaga Yoshiteru and Matsui Sadonokami
:*Sadonokami remained as the Shogun's lover until he reached adulthood, when he entered the service of the Hosokawa family, where his descendants can be found to the present day.
*Ashikaga Yoshiteru and Oodate Iwachiyomaru
:*The Jesuit Father Luis Frois writes of the 13-year-old (15-year-old in Japanese document) page's seppuku upon the death of his lord, the Shogun in 1565.
*Ashikaga Yoshiteru and Minoya Koshiro ( the 16-year-old page )
*Imagawa Ujizane and Miura Yoshishige.
*Imagawa Ujizane and two sons of Ukai Nagateru (Imagawa Ujzane's cousin); Ukai Ujinaga and Ukai Ujitsugu.
*Oyamada Masayuki and Nishina Morinobu (son of Takeda Shingen).
*Ashikaga Yoshiaki and Ueno Masanobu(Hori Magohachirō)

==Azuchi-Momoyama period (1573 to 1603 ce)==

*Oda Nobunaga and Mori Ranmaru （1565-1582）
:*Both perished in an ambush in 1582, Ranmaru, still in his teens, fighting by Oda's side.
*Oda Nobunaga and Hori Hidemasa
*Oda Nobunaga and Manmi Senchiyo (Manmi Shigemoto) (1549-1578)
:*Manmi Senchiyo is famous as one of the four most beautiful boys (bishounen) in the Sengoku period.<ref> "戦国美少年四天王" </ref>
*Araki Murashige（1535-1586） and Manmi Senchiyo (Manmi Shigemoto)
:*Manmi Senchiyo was formerly a page to Araki Murashige. But he was so beautiful that Oda Nobunaga took him away from Araki.

*Oda Nobunaga and Hasegawa Hidekazu (? -1594)
*Oda Nobunaga and Maeda Inuchiyo (Maeda Toshiie )
:*Maeda Toshiie was very attractive as a boy, so at the age of 15 he became Oda Nobunaga's favorite and was always with him day and night. Afterwards at a celebration banquet in 1576, Oda Nobunaga related his reminiscences and told him "You were my very favorite boy indeed, and every night slept with me on the same bed(futon)" holding Toshiie's beard with smile. Listening to his memoirs, all samurai warriors and daimyo at the banquet were envious of Toshiie's good luck, and remarked with one voice "Bravo Maeda Toshiie! You exremely lucky man, because you were profoundly loved by our lord prince Nobunaga".<ref>"亜相公御夜話" or "Night-stories of Maeda Toshiie" </ref>

*Oda Nobuyuki (1536 - 1557, younger brother of Oda Nobunaga) and Tsuzuki Kurando (Jujo)
*Oda Nobutoki (？-1556, younger brother of Oda Nobunaga) and Sakai Magoheiji
:*Nobunaga's brothers ruined themselves, because of excessive love for their favorites. Nobunaga himself also met his end at Honnō-ji temple, assassinated by Akechi Mitsuhide, whose lands he had wanted to take and give to Mori Ranmaru.

*Akechi Mitsuhide and Akechi Samanosuke(Akechi Hidemitsu)
*Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Ishida Mitsunari
:*Although some people slander that Hideyoshi did not have good taste in shudo , he loved many beautiful youths.
*Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Oda Nobutada (the eldest son of Oda Nobunaga)

*Kaiho Yusho(Kaihō Yūshō) and Saitō Toshimitsu

*Otani Yoshitsugu and Ishida Mitsunari

*Toyotomi Hidetsugu and Fuwa Bansaku（or Fuwa Mansaku,1578-1595）
:*Hidetsugu, regent to the emperor, ended up having to commit seppuku in 1595, joined by his beloved Fuwa Bansaku. Fuwa Bansaku is famous as one of the three most beautiful boys (三大美少年bishounen) in the Sengoku period.<ref>太田錦城 Ota Kinjo " 梧窓漫筆" ,"Goso-manpitsu" </ref>
*Toyotomi Hidetsugu and Yamada Sanjūrō
*Toyotomi Hidetsugu and Yamamoto Tonomo-no-suke
*Gamō Ujisato and Nagoya Sanzaburō （1572 - 1603）
:*Nagoya Sanzaburō is famous as one of the three most beautiful boys (三大美少年bishounen) in the Sengoku period.<ref>太田錦城 Ota Kinjo " 梧窓漫筆" ,"Goso-manpitsu" </ref>
*Kimura Yoshikiyo and Asaka Shōjirō
:*Asaka Shōjirō is famous as one of the three most beautiful boys (三大美少年bishounen) in the Sengoku period.<ref> 太田錦城 Ota Kinjo " 梧窓漫筆" ,"Goso-manpitsu" </ref>

*Katō Mitsuyasu and Akiyama Tamon

*Katō Kiyomasa and Kōzuki Sazen
*Fukushima Masanori and Kashiwagi Unume
*Fukushima Masanori and Katayama Uzen

*Date Masamune and Katakura Kojūrō Shigetsuna（later Katakura Shigenaga

*Kobayakawa Hideaki and Katakura Kojūrō Shigetsuna（later Katakura Shigenaga
:*When Katakura came up to Kyoto, Kobayakawa Hideaki fell in love with him at first sight and wooed him, pursuing him with intense passion.<ref> 『片倉代々記』,"Katakura Daidaiki" </ref>

*Mori Katsunaga(Mōri Katsunaga)(1577－1615）and Yamauchi Tadayoshi (1592-1665, nephew and adopted son of Yamauchi Kazutoyo)

*Sagawada Masatoshi and Ishikawa Jōzan( or Ishikawa Shigeyuki , 1583-1672)
*Sakazaki Naomori and Indō Shizuma
*Ukita Samon( nephew of Sakazaki Naomori) and Indō Shizuma

*Niwa Nagashige and Tokugawa Hidetada

*Yoshida Kiyoie(-1599) and Hirata Munetsugu(-1599)

==Tokugawa period (Edo period) (1603 and 1867 ce)==

*Tokugawa Ieyasu and Ii Manchiyo (Ii Naomasa)
:*One of many beloveds of the shogun, Manchiyo was a scion of an allied powerful clan.<ref>Louis Crompton, p.439 </ref>
*Tokugawa Ieyasu and Mizuno Tadamoto (1576-1620)
*Tokugawa Ieyasu and Miura Shigenari

*Tokugawa Hidetada and Naruse Masatake
:*Tokugawa Hidetada and Nabeshima Tadashige (Nabeshima Naofusa, son of Nabeshima Naoshige)

*Matsudaira Tadayoshi (1580-1607, son of Tokugawa Ieyasu) and Ogasawara Yoshihisa (Ogasawara Kenmotsu)

*Sakabe Gozaemon and Tokugawa Iemitsu
:*The childhood friend and retainer, aged 21, was murdered by his 16-year-old beloved as they shared a bathtub, in 1620.<ref>Crompton, p.439 </ref> Sakabe was killed by Tokugawa Iemitsu, because he (Sakabe) had embraced and played with other boys in the bath. These boys were pages to Iemitsu.<ref>"寛明記事" ("Kanmei-kiji") or "The Chronicle from kan'ei to meireki" </ref>
*Tokugawa Iemitsu and Hotta Masamori
*Tokugawa Iemitsu and Sakai Shigezumi(1607-1642)
*Abe Shigetsugu (1598-1651, son of Abe Masatsugu) and Tokugawa Iemitsu
*Tokugawa Iemitsu and Uchida Masanobu
*Tokugawa Iemitsu and Yagyū Tomonori (1612-1639, son of Yagyū Munenori)
*Tokugawa Iemitsu and Yagyū Mitsuyoshi (1607-1650, son of Yagyū Munenori)
*Nakane Masamori (1588-1666) and Tokugawa Iemitsu
*Tokugawa Iemitsu and Kaji Sadayoshi
*Tokugawa Iemitsu and Asakura Toyoaki
*Tokugawa Iemitsu and Takashima Sakon
*Matsudaira Nobutsuna and Tokugawa Iemitsu

*Date Masamune and Tadano Sakujurō (Tadano Katsuyoshi)
:*In circa 1617 the 50 year-old Daimyō sealed a written vow of love (still in existence) with his favorite boy (koshō,小姓) Tadano Sakujuro, like Takeda Shingen.<ref> "Date Masamune's letters", Tokyo: Sinchosensho,1995, ISBN-10: 4106004798 ISBN-13: 978-4106004797 </ref>

*Maeda Toshitsune and Horio Tadaharu

*Gamō Tadasato(1602-1627, grandson of Gamō Ujisato) and Morikawa Wakasa(extremely handsome page)

*Ishikawa Jōzan( or Ishikawa Shigeyuki , 1583-1672) and Ishikawa Magojūrō
:*Jōzan passed away in his beloved Magojūrō's arms , like Pindar(Pindaros).
*Miyamoto Musashi and Miyamoto Iori (Miyamoto Sadatsugu)
*Miyamoto Musashi and Miyamoto Mikinosuke (Miyamoto Sadahide)
:*Miyamoto Musashi had never married and adopted beautiful boys (Mikinosuke and Iori) as his sons, just as Uesugi Kenshin did.
*Honda Tadatoki and Miyamoto Mikinosuke (Miyamoto Sadahide)
:*Honda Tadatoki loved Mikinosuke extraordinarily, so his wife Senhime was burning with jealousy. Because of her furious jealousy, Mikinosuke was unfortunally expelled. However faithful Mikinosuke, knowing Honda Tadatoki's death, killed himself by seppuku (junshi).

*Kuroda Tadayuki (son of Kuroda Nagamasa) and Kurahachi Masatoshi

*Nabeshima Mitsushige and Yamamoto Tsunetomo<ref>"葉隠","Hagakure" </ref>
:*Yamamoto was one of koshō (小姓) pages to Mitsushige.
*Tokugawa Tsunayoshi and Yanagisawa Yoshiyasu
:*Yoshiyasu served the shogun, 12 years his senior, from ca. 1660 at an early age, and both played major roles in the incident of the 47 ronin of 1701. Tokugawa Tsunayoshi loved boys profoundly just like his father Tokugawa Iemitsu. Tsunayoshi had the special harem of which all the members were beautiful boys, and maintained sexual relationships with more than 150 handsome youths. Yanagisawa Yoshiyasu(one of Tsunayoshi's ex-lovers) kept many beautiful boys in his premises and every time shogun Tsunayoshi visited his(Yoshiyasu's) mansion, he presented them to the shogun like Madame de Pompadour's Parc-aux-cerfs.<ref>"三王外記""Sanno gaiki"or "The secret history of the three rulers", 御当代記" or "The history of Tokugawa Tsunayoshi",etc. </ref>
*Moriwaki Gonkuro and Mashida Toyonoshin
:*On being challenged to a duel in 1667 by a man whose advances he had rejected, sixteen year old Toyonoshin appeals to his thirty one year old lover, with whom he has been in relationship for three years, for assistance. The two end up fighting and defeating the interloper and his henchmen, then prepare for seppuku to atone for having killed the lord's men, only to be forgiven by the lord for their valor.<ref>Rictor Norton, Ed. My Dear Boy: Gay Love Letters through the Centuries; pp.71-72 </ref>
*Asano Naganori and Kataoka Takafusa(1667-1703)
*Asano Naganori and Isogai Masahisa (1679-1703)
*Asano Naganori and Tanaka Sadajirō
:*Asano Naganori , like other daimyōs, loved many handsome boys very much. And the cause of the Forty-seven Ronin incident was a trouble associated with shudō. When Kira Yoshinaka wanted Asano's beautiful youth Hibiya Ukon, Asano rejected flatly. Indignant Kira, accordingly began to bother Asano one after another.<ref>"Seichu bukan","誠忠武鑑","Chugi Bukegirimonogatari","忠義武家義理物語","Chugi Taiheiki-taizen","忠義太平記大全",etc. </ref>
*Kira Yoshinaka(吉良上野介義央) and Shimizu Ichigaku (1678 - 1703)
*Ōishi Yoshio(大石内蔵助良雄) and Segawa Takenojō.
:* Ōishi Yoshio,the top hero of Chūshingura, played with kabuki actors and kagema in Kyōto. Takenojō, kagema actor, was one of them.
*Aiyama Kōnosuke (1686-?) and Ōishi Chikara (大石主税良金,1688 - 1703).
:*Ōishi Chikara,son of Ōishi Yoshio and youngest member of Forty-seven Ronin, suggested by his father to go and play with prostitute in 1702, without hesitation rushed to brothel in Kyōto and bought a male-prostitute named Aiyama Kōnosuke. Chikara and Kōnosuke did swear eternal love. In 1703 as soon as Chikara killed himself by seppuku, Kōnosuke became a buddhist monk and prayed for the repose of Chikara's soul.
*Matsuo Bashō and Tsuboi Tokoku(a.k.a. Mangikumaru (circa 1657～1690)

*Maeda Yoshinori and Ōtsuki Tomomoto (1703-1748)
*Tokugawa Ienobu and Manabe Akifusa
*Hiraga Gennai and Yoshizawa Kuniishi
:*Hiraga Gennai loved kabuki actors and kagema very much. He had never married.
*Tokugawa Ieshige and Tanuma Okitsugu
*Tokugawa Ieharu and Mizuno Tadatomo (1731-1802)
*Tokugawa Ienari and Mizuno Tadaakira (1763-1834)

==Meiji period (1868 - 1912 ce)==

*Saigō Takamori and Murata Shinpachi
:*Murata, who lived from 1836 to 1877, was reputed to be very beautiful in his youth.
*Ōkubo Toshimichi and Murata Shinpachi
:*Both Saigō and Ōkubo fell in love and competed with each other for the boy's hand. Hence these two heroes became rivals and conflicted throughout their lives, as Themistocles and Aristides did.

==References==
{{reflist}}

==Sources==

*Ihara Saikaku (Paul Gordon Schalow, trans.). The Great Mirror of Male Love. Stanford University Press, 1990. ISBN 978-0804718950
*Leupp, Gary. Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan. University of California Press, 1997. ISBN 978-0520209008
*Pflugfelder, Gregory. Cartographies of Desire: Male-Male Sexuality in Japanese Discourse, 1600-1950. University of California Press, 2000. ISBN 978-0520251656
*Watanabe, Tsuneo et Jun'ichi Iwata, La voie des éphèbes: histoire et histoires des homosexualités au Japon. Paris, 1987. ISBN 2865090248
*Watanabe, Tsuneo and Jun'ichi Iwata. The Love of the Samurai: A Thousand Years of Japanese Homosexuality. GMP, London, 1989. ISBN 0-85449-115-5
*Miller, Stephen D. (edited), Partings at Dawn : An Anthology of Japanese Gay Literature. 1996. ISBN 0-940567-18-0

*Hanafusa Shiro, Nanshoku-ko, 1928.
*Inagaki Taruho, Inagaki Taruho Taizen 2, 1969.
*Domoto Masaki, Nanshoku Engeki-shi, 1970.
*Domoto Masaki, Nanshoku Engeki-shi, (New rev.), 1976.
*Iwata,Jun'ichi, Honcho Nanshoku-ko, 1974.
*Iwata,Jun'ichi, Nanshoku bunkenshoshi, 1973.
*Minakata Kumagusu, Minakata Kumagusu Zenshu 9, 1973.
*Hasegawa Kozo and Tsukikawa Kazuo (eds.), Minakata Kumagusu nanshoku dangi, 1991. ISBN 4896946138
*Iwata,Jun'ichi, Honcho Nanshoku-ko & Nanshoku bunkenshoshi, 2002. ISBN 4562034890
*Sunaga Asahiko, Bishonen Nihonshi, 2002. ISBN 4336043981
*Sunaga Asahiko et al.(eds.), Shomotsu no Okoku 8; Bishonen, 1997. ISBN 4336040087
*Sunaga Asahiko et al.(eds.), Shomotsu no Okoku 9; Ryoseiguyu, 1998. ISBN 4336040095
*Sunaga Asahiko et al.(eds.), Shomotsu no Okoku 10; Doseiai, 1999. ISBN 4336040109

*Hanasaki kazuo, Edo no Kagemajaya, 1980, 1991.
*Hanasaki kazuo, Edo no Kagemajaya, (New rev.), 2002. ISBN 4895222853
*Hanasaki kazuo, Edo no Kagemajaya, (New rev.), 2006. ISBN 4895224708

*Ujiie Mikito, Bushido to Eros 1995. ISBN 406149239x
*Ujiie Mikito, Edo no Seidan, 2003. ISBN 4062683857

*Hiratsuka Yoshinobu, Nihon ni okeru Nanshoku no Kenkyu, 1983.
*Shibayama Hajime, Edo Nanshoku-ko, 3 vol. 1992-1993. ISBN 4826501501, ISBN 4826501528, ISBN 482650151x
*Saneyoshi Tatsuo, Honcho Bishonen-roku, 1993. ISBN 4875199155
*Kakinuma Eiko, Kurihara Chiyo et al. (eds.), Tanbi-Shosetsu, Gay-Bungaku Book Guide, 1993. ISBN 4893673238

*Shunroan Shujin (Watanabe Shin'ichiro), Edo no Shikido; Nanshoku-hen, 1996. ISBN 4916067177
*Watanabe Shin'ichiro, Edo no Keibo-jutsu, 2005. ISBN 4106035472

*Koishikawa Zenji (edited), Nanshoku no minzokugaku, ISBN 4826503830
*Koishikawa Zenji (edited), Gei no minzokugaku, ISBN 4826504357

*Timon Screech, Takayama Hiroshi(translat.), Shunga, 1998. ISBN 4062581280

==See also==
*[[Japan]]
*[[Homosexuality]]
*[[Pederasty]]
*[[Historical boylove relationships]]
*[[Historical boylove relationships in ancient Greece]]
*[[Historical boylove relationships in ancient Rome]]

[[fr:Couple pédérastique japonais]]
[[Category:History]]
[[Category:Japan]]

Japan

2014-06-26T23:20:08Z

Caprineus: Link to the French page

[[Image:120px-Yoshitoshi Ariwara Narihira.jpg|200 px|thumb|Ariwara no Narihira]]
'''Japan''' is an island nation in East Asia. Located in the Pacific Ocean, it lies to the east of the Sea of Japan, China, North Korea, South Korea and Russia, stretching from the Sea of Okhotsk in the north to the East China Sea and Taiwan in the south. The characters that make up Japan's name mean "sun-origin", which is why Japan is sometimes referred to as the "Land of the Rising Sun".<ref>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan</ref>
{{clr}}
==References==
{{reflist}}
==See also==
*[[Shotacat]]
*[[Historical boylove relationships in Japan]]
== External links ==

* wanpaku. ''Shota: Japanese 'boylove' vs. Western Subculture.'' [[BC:986263]]
* [[Wikipedia: ja: ショタコン]]
* [[Wikipedia: ja: 少年愛]]

[[fr:Japon]]
[[Category:Japan]]

List of boy movies

2014-02-15T15:57:22Z

Caprineus: Links to other languages

Many boylovers enjoy watching films which feature young male actors. [[Boys On Your Screen]] is a site which provides a forum for people interested in discussing such movies. The films that have a red link do not yet have their own page on BoyWiki, please feel free to write a review. Also see: [[:Category:Film]]

Here is a list of films which may be of particular interest to boylovers:


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[[#0-9|0-9]] [[#A|A]] [[#B|B]] [[#C|C]] [[#D|D]] [[#E|E]] [[#F|F]] [[#G|G]] [[#H|H]] [[#I|I]] [[#J|J]] [[#K|K]] [[#L|L]] [[#M|M]] [[#N|N]] [[#O|O]] [[#P|P]] [[#Q|Q]] [[#R|R]] [[#S|S]] [[#T|T]] [[#U|U]] [[#V|V]] [[#W|W]] [[#X|X]] [[#Y|Y]] [[#Z|Z]] __NOTOC__

[[#External links|External links]]
|}

{{box1 start}}
==A==
* [[The Abduction of Zack Butterfield (2011)]]
* [[About a Boy]]
* [[Acla]]
* [[Aksharaya]] (2005) aka A Letter of Fire
* [[All About Ah-Long (1989]]) (Cantonese with optional English subtitles): all about ah-long
::After a 10-year absence the mother of Porky Yeung (Huang Kun Husen) resurfaces wanting to take him away from his father who has raised him.
* [[Alone with Mr. Carter (film)|Alone with Mr. Carter]]
* [[The Annunciation (1984)]] angyali udvozlet
::A surreal account of the history of humanity portrayed entirely by children between the ages of 8 and 12, starting with Adam and Eve!
* [[Artificial Intelligence: AI (2001 film)|Artificial Intelligence: AI]]
*[[At Play in the Fields of the Lord (1991)]]
::Husband and wife evangelical missionaries travel to the Amazonian jungle with their young son Billy (Niilo Kivirinta) to convert the Indians

==B==
* [[Bad News Bears (1976) (Film)]]
*[[Bad News Bears (2005) (Film)]]
* [[Balkonas (2008)]]
* [[Barnens ö (Children's Island) (1980) (Film)|Barnens ö]]
* [[The Beastmaster (1982)]] - Josh Milrad and Billy Jacoby
* [[Billy Elliot]]
* [[Brecha (film)|Brecha]]
* [[Brotherly (2008)|Brotherly]]
* [[Brother of Sleep (1995)]] aka Schlafes Bruder
* [[Bumpy]] (1981) (Estonian with optional English subtitles): nukitsamees
::Brother and sister Kusti (Ülari Kirsipuu) and Iti (Anna-Liisa Kurve) are captured by an evil hag when they stray too close to the forest and used as slave labor: Kusti is set to work on the farm, while Iti looks after the hag's mischievous son, whom she names Bumpy (Egert Soll) due to the horn-like bumps on his head.
* [[The Butcher Boy|Butcher Boy, The]]

==C==
* [[Cache Cash (1994) (film)|Cache Cash]]
* [[Ce que le jour doit à la nuit (2012)]]
* [[The Chorus|Chorus, The]]
* [[Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (movie)]]
* [[Child Bride (1938)]]
::A schoolteacher in a rural community campaigns to stop the practice of older men marrying 'young 'uns'. The main attraction is Jennie, played by 12-year-old Shirley Mills, who goes swimming with her (same age) sweetheart Freddie.
* [[The Child of Man (1991)]] aka Cilveka berns
* [[Child of Rage (1992)]]
::A priest and his wife adopt adorable brother and sister Eric (Sam Gifaldi) and Cat (Ashley Peldon), but the girl has terrible outbursts of rage. When they get her into treatment they begin to find out the reason for this.
*[[A Child Went Forth (1941)]]
::Short documentary about a farm that's a summer camp and progressive school for exploration and discovery for young children.
* [[Children's Island (Barnens Ö)]]
* [[Chronicle of a Boy Alone (1965)]] aka Crónica de un niño solo
* [[Ciske the Rat]]
* [[Clownhouse (1989)]]
::Just before Halloween, Casey (Nathan Forrest Winters) and his two older brothers are alone at home where they are menaced by three escaped mental patients who have murdered some circus clowns and taken their identities.

==D==
* [[Daddy's War (1977]]) aka La guerra de papá
* [[D.A.R.Y.L. (Film)]]
* [[Death in Venice (film)]]
* [[Diary of a Wimpy Kid]]
* [[Don't Cry, It's Only Thunder (1982)]]
::A US Army medic in Saigon becomes emotionally involved with a group of Vietnamese orphans.
* [[Don't Go to Sleep (1982)]]
::After moving to a new house, Mary (Robin Ignico) begins seeing the ghost of her older sister, Jennifer (Kristin Cumming), who died in an accident a year earlier. Oliver Robins plays Mary's younger brother, Kevin.
* [[Dreamspeaker (1976)]] (list of 8): dreamspeaker tracey
::Ian Tracey plays Peter, a disturbed 11-year-old boy who in put in an institution for setting fires. He soon escapes and shacks up with a native Canadian 'dreamspeaker'.
* [[Dunston Checks In (Film)]]
==E==
* [[Edges of the Lord]]
* [[El niño y el muro (1965)]]
* [[El niño y la estrella (1976)]]
* [[En tu Ausencia (film)|In Your Absence|In Your Absence (En tu ausencia) (2008)]]
* [[Europa Europa]]

==F==
* [[For a Lost Soldier]]
* [[Freedom is Paradise]]

==G==
* [[The Genesis Children|Genesis Children, The]]
*[[Goodbye Uncle Tom (1971)]] (Italian with English subtitles): addio zio tom
::Pseudo-documentary about Negro slavery in America. Watch the 'director's cut'.
* [[The Good Son]]
* [[Goracy czwartek (1994)]]
* [[Le Grand Chemin (1987)]] aka The Grand Highway (French with English subtitles)
::Louis (Antoine Hubert), a nine-year-old boy from Paris, spends his summer holiday in a small town in Brittany. His mother Claire has lodged him with her girlfriend Marcelle and her husband Pelo while she's having her second baby. There Louis makes friends with Martine (Vanessa Guedj), the ten-year-old girl next door, and learns from her about life.
* [[La guerre des boutons]]

==H==
* [[Halfaouine: Boy of the Terraces (1990)]] (Arabic with English subtitles)
::A coming-of-age comedy/drama set in Tunis about a 12-year-old boy, Noura (Selim Boughedir), who must move from the loving world of Moslem women to the harsher world of men while learning about the opposite sex.
* [[Hans Röckle und der Teufel (1974)]]
* [[Hard Goodbyes: My Father (2002)]] (Greek with optional English or Spanish subtitles): dyskoloi apohairetismoi
::In 1969 Athens, 10-year-old Elias (Yorgos Karayannis) struggles to come to terms with the sudden death of his father.
* [[The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things |Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things, The]]

==I==
* [[I Am David]]
* [[I'm Not Scared]]
* [[The Invisible Children (2001)]] (Spanish with English subtitles): ninos invisibles
::8-year-old Rafael (Guillermo Castañeda) wants to get closer to a girl his own age, so, with the help of two friends, he attempts to make himself invisible by witchcraft.
* [[Invincible Space Streaker (1988)]]

==J==

* [[James (2008)(Short film)]]
* [[Jet Boy]]

==K==
* [[Karik and Valya's Remarkable Adventures (1987)]]
* [[Kes]]

==L==
* [[Leolo]]
* [[L.I.E.]]
* [[Lille Virgil og Orla Frøsnapper (1980)]] aka Little Virgil and Freddy Frogface
* [[Limbo (film)|Limbo]]
* [[Lord of the Flies (1963 film)]]
* [[Lord of the Flies (1990 film)]]
* [[Lost in Siberia (1991)]]

{{box2 start}}

==M==
* [[Malèna]]
* [[The Man Without a Face (film)|Man Without a Face, The]]
* [[Maya (1966)]] - Jay North and Sajid Khan
* [[Maya (2001)]]
* [[Menino Maluquinho 1 (1995)]]
* [[Menino Maluquinho 2 (1998)]]
* [[Messieurs les enfants (1997)]]
* [[Mi niño Tizoc (1972)]]
* [[Mister Blot's Academy (1984)]] (two part film - Polish with English subtitles): akademia pana kleksa
::10-year-old Adam (Slavek Wronka) goes to the eccentric Mister Blot's Academy, where work and play are equally interesting.
* [[Mixed Company (1974)]]
::Comedy about a family that adopts a string of children of different races.
* [[Mondo]]
* [[Moonrise Kingdom]]
* [[Murmur of the Heart]]
* [[My Father's Glory]]
* [[My Mothers's Castle]]
* [[Mysterious Skin]]

==N==
* [[The Naked Island (1960)]] hadaka no shima
::Japanese film with no dialogue about the intolerably hard life of a family with two young boys (played by Shinji Tanaka and Masanori Horimoto), the only inhabitants of a very small island.
* [[The NeverEnding Story (film)]] - Barret Oliver and Noah Hathaway
* [[North Sea Texas (2011) (Film)]]
* [[Novecento]]

==O==
* [[The Odd Life of Timothy Green]]
* [[Oliver!]]
* [[Oliver Twist (2005 film)|Oliver Twist]]
* [[Only Clouds Move the Stars (1998)]]

==P==
* [[Painted Faces (1988)]] (Chinese with English subtitles): painted faces 1988
::Story of the Peking Opera School, the first half of which shows the harsh training given to the boys by their strict master.
* [[Paradise]]
* [[Pelle the Conqueror (Pelle erobreren)]]
* [[Philipp, der Kleine (1978)]] aka Phillip the Small
* [[Pixote]]
* [[Plantation Boy (1965)]] aka Menino de Engenho
* [[Precious Moments (Film)]]
* [[Primaria(film)|Primaria]]

==R==
* [[Radio Flyer]]
* [[The Revolt of Job (1983)]] (Hungarian with optional English subtitles): job lazadasa
::Hungary, 1943. An elderly childless Jewish couple adopt Lackó (Gábor Fehér), an unruly Christian boy, to whom they intend to pass on their wealth and traditions before Nazi oppression engulfs the country
* [[Robby (1968) (Film)]]
* [[Ronia: The Robber's Daughter (1984)]] (Swedish with optional English subtitles): ronja henriksson
::11-year-old Ronia (Hanna Zetterberg) lives in mediaeval Scandinavia with her robber chief father and makes friends with 11-year-old Birk (Dan Håfström), son of the sworn enemy of her father. When their relationship is discovered, the children have to learn to live in the woods.

==S==
* [[Second Best]]
* [[Siemiany (2009)]]
* [[Sin destino 2002]] aka Without Destination
* [[Sixth Sense]]
* [[Stand By Me (Film)]]
* [[Suddenly, Last Summer (Film)]]
* [[Sunday's Children]]

==T==

* [[Tarsi se saprug za mama (1985)]] aka A Husband for Mum
* [[Tarzan of the Apes (1918)]]
::After Lord Clayton and his pregnant young wife are shipwrecked off the coast of Africa, a baby is born and raised by apes after his parents die. The young Tarzan is played by Gordon Griffith for the first half of the film.
* [[Terri (2011)]]
::Centers on a large 15-year-old boy in a small town as he struggles to adjust to his difficult life. Some very nice scenes with Bridger Zadina.
* [[This Is It (1971)]]
* [[La tía Alejandra (1979)]] (Spanish with optional English subtitles)
::When old aunt Alejandra goes to live with a Mexican middle-class family they are grateful for the financial help at first, but the old woman is truly a witch, and she turns against them. The children are 13-year-old Malena (Lilian Davis) and her younger brother Andrés (Adonay Somoza Jr.) and sister Martha (María Rebeca).
* [[Tobi el niño con alas (1978)]]
* [[Tom's Midnight Garden]] Starring: Anthony Way
* [[Torrid Noon (1966)]] aka Goreshto Pladne
* [[Tu seras un homme (film)|Tu seras un homme]]
* [[Twins at the Zoo (1989)]] aka Dva lidi v zoo

==U==
* [[Upside Down (1983)]] aka Do góry nogami

==V==
* [[Vuelve (film)|Vuelve]]

==W==
* [[War of the Buttons (1994 film)|War of the Buttons]]
* [[Wavelength (1983)]]
::A young couple decide to liberate a small group of child-like space aliens being held prisoner at a top secret military facility.
* [[The Way, Way Back]]
* [[Wee Dreaming (2009)]]
::Short comedy/drama about 7-year-old Kosmo Wilton who drinks too much soft drink then bets his mother he won't need to pee on a long drive, during which he confronts the futility of his stand with extraordinary consequences. Sasha Wilton is his younger sister.
*[[Weiser (2001)]] (Polish and English with optional English subtitles): weiser
::A middle aged man recalls when he was 12 years old, and he and his friends were affected by tragedy when two other 12-year-olds, Dawid Weiser and Elka disappear after they set off some explosives.
* [[What Color is the Wind (1973)]] aka De que color es el viento
* [[Whole New Thing]]
* [[Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (Film)]]
* [[The World of Ludovic (1993)]] aka De wereld van Ludovic (French with optional English subtitles): de wereld ludovic
::Neglected by his parents, 12-year-old Ludovic (Mathias Coppens) meets and falls in love with 12-year-old Sophie (Bella van Meel), the daughter of a piano teacher.

==Y==
* [[Yeah, Kowalski! (Short film)]]
* [[You Are Not Alone (film)]] aka Du er ikke alene

==Z==
* [[Zucht (2007) (Short film)]]

==0-9==
* [[1er amour (2013)]] Canada
* [[300 Miles to Heaven (1989)]] aka 300 mil do nieba (Polish with optional English subtitles): 300 mil do nieba
::Drama, based on a true story, about teenager Jedrek (Rafal Zimowski) and his younger brother Grzes (Wojciech Klata) who escape from communist Poland all the way to Denmark hidden under a truck.

{{boxes end}}

==External links==
*[http://www.boysonyourscreen.org/ Boys On Your Screen]
*[http://www.boysonyourscreen.org/favorites_2007/favorites_2007.html Favorites films of 2007 from Boys On Your Screen]
*[http://www.boysonyourscreen.org/favorites_2013/favorites_2013.html Favorites films of 2013 from Boys On Your Screen]
*[http://www.imdb.com/list/I_kYwk3e15s/?ref_=tt_rls_1 (IMDb) The ultimate coming of age movie list]
*[http://www.boychat.org/messages/1359293.htm BoyChat Thread on Favorite Films. Help transfer it to this list.]
*[http://tjampoer-adoel.org/shared/movie-pages/archive/quick.html the Movie Pages]

[[de:Liste von Filmen mit Jungs]]
[[fr:Filmographie garçonnière]]

[[Category:Film]]

Backside

2013-09-08T19:30:30Z

Caprineus: Link to French version

'''''Backside''''' (1981-198?) was a [[France|French]] language quarterly boy-love magazine edited by Harold Giroux.

It was published in Paris and its ISSN number was 0755-1878. Its issues contained essays, poetry, photographs and sketches and every issue was published in a unique poster format. Even though the magazine was supposed to be published four times a year, its publication, like most boy-love magazines, was quite irregular. Nine issues appeared up to 1986.

{{Stub}}

[[Category:Publications]]

[[fr:Backside (revue)]]

Modern Boylover Magazine

2013-09-08T19:27:45Z

Caprineus: Link to French version

[[Image:Mbmlogo-wiki.png|250px|right|Modern Boylover Magazine logo]]

'''Modern Boylover Magazine''' is an online Boylove Magazine which features various articles of interest to the Boylove community. The magazine is 100% volunteer driven, and is a free resource for boylovers and non-boylovers alike. It is currently written and published by members of various BL Forums, including BoyMoment.com, YoungCity.net, and Boylover.org. The magazine itself is run independently at modernblmag.net, where past issues can be viewed and downloaded.
{{clr}}

==HISTORY==

Modern Boylover Magazine began on Boylover.net (2002-2009), and published its first issue in July 2006. MBM was started by SimbaLion, who was Entertainment Coordinator of [[ BoyLover.net‎|BLNs']] forums at the time. He went through great efforts to get members involved in various aspects of the magazine, including the title, and choice of cover art, etc. Members were given a set of Guidelines and a deadline for submitting written works. Once members' contributions had been recieved, a PDF was created, and published on a subdomain of BLN. Unlike the 'members only' format of the forums, the magazine was made available to all, without needing to register on the website.

~work in progress~
==Cover images==


[[Image:Mbm12-med.jpg|thumb|Modern Boylover Magazine cover July, 2013]]
{{clr}}
==External Links==
* [http://modernblmag.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=1021 5th Anniversary Edition] - MBM Issue 11 text and PDF

* [http://modernblmag.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=9117 Latest issue] - preview of the 12th issue of Modern Boylover Magazine

* [http://www.modernblmag.net/ The Modern Boylover Magazine website]

* http://www.boylovermovie.com/products/modern-boylover-magazine/

[[Category:Publications]]

[[fr:Modern Boylover Magazine (revue)]]

Talk:Tor Erling Staff

2013-07-26T11:25:56Z

Caprineus: No reference found for a Staff quotation

==No reference==

I included in the French BoyWiki ([https://fr.boywiki.org/w/index.php?title=Citations_sur_l’âge_de_douze_ans Citations sur l’âge de douze ans]) a translation of the quotation ''"if we do need an age of consent, it should be 12 years. In my opinion, we don't need such a rule. Abuse is handled well enough by assault laws."'' This quotation was already on the French page [https://fr.boywiki.org/wiki/Tor_Erling_Staff Tor Erling Staff].

But I couldn't find the exact reference of the original Norwegian text, nor this text itself. All internet pages found by Google link to BoyWiki, not to the Norwegian version. The Dagbladet page [http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2005/10/06/445577.html Hadde sex med voksne menn som 12-åring] (October 6, 2005) doesn't give it either. Can somebody find the original text and page?

[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] 11:25, 26 July 2013 (GMT)

BoyWiki:Agora/7 June 2013

2013-06-07T22:23:20Z

Caprineus: BC or BCE?

== BC or BCE? ==

After I created 3 links from English century pages to the German and French ones, I had a look to the <nowiki>{{Centurybox}}</nowiki> template to see how to manage for centuries before year 1. I saw that the standard name by now is "1st century BC", etc.

In the French version, we didn't choose '''Ier siècle av. J.-C.''' as you can often read in French texts, but '''Ier siècle AEC''', which can be read "Premier siècle avant l'ère commune" ''(First century before Common Era)'' or "Premier siècle avant l'ère chrétienne" ''(First century before Christian Era)''. The English equivalent is '''1st century BCE'''.

About the English "BCE": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era 
About the French "AEC": http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ère_commune 
About the German equivalent "V. u. Z.": http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V._u._Z.

As the basic meaning of "BCE" is "before Common Era" ("before Christian Era" being just an alternative reading), it is much more neutral. Non-religious and non-Christian people (and there are quite a lot of them!) can be shocked if all dates overtly refer to Christianity. And even Christian boy-lovers often refuse such religious reference, because they are aware of the historical role of Churches in the repression of boy-love.

For all these reasons, I propose to change "BC" into "BCE" for dates before year 1.

(You can have a look at the French BoyWiki, where all century pages have been created from [https://fr.boywiki.org/wiki/VIIe_siècle_AEC VIIe siècle AEC] to [https://fr.boywiki.org/wiki/XXIe_siècle XXIe siècle]—all of them with links to the future English and German pages.)

[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] 22:23, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

21st century

2013-06-07T21:26:25Z

Caprineus: Links to other versions

<imagemap>
Image:76px-Wooden hourglass 3.jpg|left
default [[Category:Chronology]]
desc none
</imagemap>
{{Centurybox|21}}
[[Category: Centuries]]
[[de:21. Jahrhundert]]
[[fr:XXIe siècle]]

20th century

2013-06-07T21:24:21Z

Caprineus: Links to other versions

<imagemap>
Image:76px-Wooden hourglass 3.jpg|left
default [[Category:Chronology]]
desc none
</imagemap>
{{Centurybox|20}}
[[Category: Centuries]]
[[de:20. Jahrhundert]]
[[fr:XXe siècle]]

19th century

2013-06-07T21:22:48Z

Caprineus: Links to other versions

<imagemap>
Image:76px-Wooden hourglass 3.jpg|left
default [[Category:Chronology]]
desc none
</imagemap>
{{Centurybox|19}}
[[Category: Centuries]]
[[de:19. Jahrhundert]]
[[fr:XIXe siècle]]

Talk:2013

2013-04-03T12:55:54Z

Caprineus: m

==Interwiki==
May I suggest that we all try and think "interwiki" when we create or edit a page? Specially for the calendar, where we can put at the end of every page codes like:

<nowiki>[[de:2013]]</nowiki> <nowiki>[[fr:2013]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[de:Januar]]</nowiki> <nowiki>[[fr:Janvier]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[de:1. Januar]]</nowiki> <nowiki>[[fr:1er janvier]]</nowiki>

or

<nowiki>[[de:2. Januar]]</nowiki> <nowiki>[[fr:2 janvier]]</nowiki>

Boylove culture and history are worldwide, international and multilingual!

[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] 11:10, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

:Yes, of course you are right and I will try to make these additions. However, in the time it took you to write this you could have just added it :) Caprineus, I do hope that you feel free to make any additions that you deem appropriate. BoyWiki is a group effort and should reflect all of us. In fact, most all the pages on en.boywiki don't have the language links that should be included.
:[[Etenne]]
::First I had to edit the French months, which didn't have any language link yet. And after that I didn't feel like editing in English 365 days + 12 months + some years! That's why I mentioned the problem before you create the remaining day pages or other years.
::But you're right: BoyWiki is a group effort---I just wonder sometimes where is the group... :-/
::[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] 12:54, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

Talk:2013

2013-04-03T12:54:41Z

Caprineus: Group effort

==Interwiki==
May I suggest that we all try and think "interwiki" when we create or edit a page? Specially for the calendar, where we can put at the end of every page codes like:

<nowiki>[[de:2013]]</nowiki> <nowiki>[[fr:2013]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[de:Januar]]</nowiki> <nowiki>[[fr:Janvier]]</nowiki>

<nowiki>[[de:1. Januar]]</nowiki> <nowiki>[[fr:1er janvier]]</nowiki>

or

<nowiki>[[de:2. Januar]]</nowiki> <nowiki>[[fr:2 janvier]]</nowiki>

Boylove culture and history are worldwide, international and multilingual!

[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] 11:10, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

:Yes, of course you are right and I will try to make these additions. However, in the time it took you to write this you could have just added it :) Caprineus, I do hope that you feel free to make any additions that you deem appropriate. BoyWiki is a group effort and should reflect all of us. In fact, most all the pages on en.boywiki don't have the language links that should be included.
:[[Etenne]]
::First I had to edit the French months, which didn't have any language links yet. And after that I didn't feel like editing in English 365 days + 12 months + some years! That's why I mentioned the problem before you create the remaining day pages or other years.
::But you're right: BoyWiki is a group effort---I just wonder sometimes where is the group... :-/
::[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] 12:54, 3 April 2013 (GMT)

Talk:2013

2013-04-03T11:10:44Z

Caprineus: Interwiki

User:Caprineus

2013-04-02T01:02:05Z

Caprineus: Creation

Since 2008 I’ve been a regular contributor to the French BoyWiki.

My user page there is [https://fr.boywiki.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Caprineus Utilisateur:Caprineus].

[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] 01:02, 2 April 2013 (GMT)

Talk:Alexander's Choice (book)

2013-04-02T00:47:11Z

Caprineus: Quotation marks?

==Quotation marks?==
I just created the French page [https://fr.boywiki.org/wiki/Alexander’s_choice_(Edmund_Marlowe) Alexander’s choice (Edmund Marlowe)], and I'm surprised to find double quotes in the English page name : '''"Alexander's Choice"''' instead of '''Alexander's Choice'''.

It may be an error, because no other page name, made from a book or film title, has such quotation marks.

[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] 00:47, 2 April 2013 (GMT)

Talk:Phylogenesis of pedophilia

2010-12-10T00:56:57Z

Caprineus: A translation from the French BoyWiki

The first version of this article was first published in the French mag ''L'élu'' (https://ruedesgarcons.fpc.li/magazine/ELU03/), and then it was put on the [https://fr.boywiki.org/wiki/Accueil French BoyWiki] with the title [https://fr.boywiki.org/wiki/Phylogenèse_de_la_pédophilie Phylogenèse de la pédophilie].

This is a translation, which is far from perfect... The author first used an automatic translator and then corrected severals points of it. He also posted it on Boychat ([https://www.boychat.org/messages/1219937.htm there]).

The author [[User:Bjertum|Bjertum]] has no editing rights in the English BoyWiki (though he asked for this for months, but nobody answered him yet...). So, on his request, I transfered the translation here. Please feel free to correct it and to put it in good English!

[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] 00:56, 10 December 2010 (GMT)

Phylogenesis of pedophilia

2010-12-10T00:22:54Z

Caprineus: Phylogenesis of pedophilia

The evolution theory is largely allowed today, though it is subject to oppositions in some countries, mainly for religious reasons. Some of the developments and implications of this theory are however rather little known. They are in particular the evolutionary history of each species, or its '''phylogenesis''', the mechanisms that one observes there; and especially for mankind, the relation between selection and human psychology, which one regards as the product of selection and of the evolution it leads to. This is the fields of what is called evolutionary psychology or sociobiology. Those often treat topics related to sexuality, and their approach appears relevant or even fertile applied to pederasty and '''pedophilia'''.

__TOC__

== Selection and evolution ==

The mechanism at the base of evolution is natural selection: the most adapted and most resistant organisms can survive while the others disappear, which with a variability and some changes of the genes which define the organisms, leads to a very slow transformation of a species and even to the appearance of a new species which separates from another.
What one knows in a second time, is that the final selection does not relate solely to the criterion of resistance, but of reproduction: a plant resistant to the diseases, with the dryness, but which would make definitely less seeds being likely to germinate, than its neighbor of the same species, is not more quickly eliminate as an individual, but its lineage line will.

The selection thus retains the characters allowing a good reproduction in quantity and quality, if one understands quality as the chances that the individuals resulting from this reproduction will have to perpetuate the cycle. This selection however allows varied strategies to reach the same result: some plants produce a great quantity of seeds which will have each one little of chances to develop, while others produce larger and fewer seeds, which contain a reserve of energy which will help the first stages of their development. In the animals, this selection induces the development of an instinct of reproduction to ensure the development of their offshoot. This with still of the strategies varied, between that of the tortoises which leave behind their relatively abundant laying, and that of the animals which protect or nourish their offshoot for a more or less long period.

== Psychology as a product of evolution ==

Beyond this aspect, to ensure the success of its offspring, an animal must find a partner of the other sex, which ensures best success for this operation to him: one will speak then about sexual selection. It is here that the bases of evolutionary psychology for the Men are. It establishes the link between the mechanisms of general and sexual selection, and the psychology which it induced among women and men, during the development of our species. This approach doesn't only explains the attraction of the ones for the others, but of several more particular points, like the jealousy, the the fact that the men have a more pronounced tendency than the women for the momentary relations: indeed, if those are fertile, the children to be born involve an “incompressible” investment for the mother, (to carry the child then to ensure at least its first months or years) while this investment will be in very light for the father, who can allow himself to frequently remake the operation. Within the mankind, even in an individual, one can in this way read in the behaviors, the strategies aiming not only the simple reproduction, but to ensure his offspring the best chances to make its place in the world, and in finally to ensure the diffusion of his genes. For example, the women are attracted by the rich men or of being able because they are best able to guarantee resources to them to raise their children, while the men are attracted by the young women because they are the most fertile.

Evolution being a slow process, it is considered that for the mankind, it was relatively unimportant during the last 10,000 or 20,000 years. This evolution was thus made essentially during the Paleolithic era, within the framework of a lifestyle prehistoric, known as “primitive” of wandering hunters-gatherers. It is thus this type of society which must be considered.

== Homosexuality and pedophilia: aberrations of evolution? ==

Within the framework of this approach, the pedophilia and homosexuality are not easily explainable anomalies, since they do not result a priori in having a descent. How can we explain that they are maintained among the population?

Several elements were brought concerning the case of homosexuality. For example it creates bonds and alliances between of the same individuals sex, which would make it possible to support the survival of the group. In addition, the characters related to homosexuality especially a more female behavior, would make the men attractive to the women.

In this case it would not be the strict homosexuality which would be an advantage, but the characters which induce it, when they are present at weaker amount.<ref>http://ogprints.org/2228/0/NEL220601R01_Muscarella_.pdf</ref> Another point, homosexuality, especially in the animals, is in general nonexclusive, the homosexual ones having often a descent.<ref>http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13674-evolution-myths-natural-selection-cannot-explain-homosexuality.html</ref> These ideas are still debatable and to specify, owing to the fact that they handle categories difficult to define according to the time at the society, even of the species to which one refers, and then that the advantage suggested is rather indirect.

The case of pedophilia and pederasty is certainly specific, and deserves its own explanations.

== Selection of group ==

Let us pass by the concept of selection of group. To consider competition and the selection at the strictly individual level is insufficient. A group whose members have a rather altruistic behavior within this group, has an important if not crucial advantage compared to the other groups, in which each member would act in an egoistic way. That was stated by Charles Darwin himself in his book, ''Descent off Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex''.<ref>http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Descent_of_Man/Chapter_IV</ref> It shows that the behaviors of defense of the group: to go ahead and to fight to defend its tribe involve more risks than benefit for the individual, but a group whose members have a tendency to do it will have an advantage, will develop to the detriment of on the other groups, and will propagate this feature.

== The age of the trainings ==

Pedophilic/pederastic attraction relates to an age range which match up rather well with those for which the contemporary society decided to found schooling. In France, compulsory education apply to the 6 to 16 years old children, and one passes his Baccalaureate when he is approximately 18. One could add the nursery school on a side and the higher learning on the other. It can be seen that the French society, like many other ones, view that to be transmitted knowledge beyond the restricted family surroundings, must be the principal occupation of the youngster, at least from 6 to 16 years, or even from 3 to approximately 23 years. However if schooling is generally advanced like a progress and, for the countries where it is not generalized, an indisputable objective, the “formal” school did not exist during prehistory. School at our time is certainly only one manner (probably debatable) of meeting a need which developed quite long before.

The primitive society which made the development of our species were not rough and bestial. One can have of it a representation by supposing their lifestyle similar to that of wandering Amerindian tribes of the last centuries. The study of the people of hunters-gatherers or the historical period shows that these societies carry each one a mass of knowledge and a complex culture, which allow their adaptation to the environment where they live. They are knowledge relating to varied fields, such as technical, geographical skills, or simply the human relation, and then know-how on making shelter, ensure one's food resources all round the year, etc. But each generation must acquire this knowledge to ensure the sustainability or even the development of the tribe, and like nowadays, the quality of these acquisitions are not independent of the education which the youngster of the tribe receive.

Without claiming that strict limits are valid, the role of a mother for her child appears essential during the first two or three years of its life. That of the father is also important during this period since the pregnant mother, occupied by her baby or young child particularly needs material support of her spouse during this period. That would explain even the typical duration of a love affair which would be three years.<ref>http://www.psychologies.com/Couple/Seduction/Articles/Lucy-Vincent-neurobiologiste-Pourquoi-l-amour-dure-trois-ans</ref>

No more than nowadays, the prehistoric parents were not frequently abandon their children when they were three or six years old. However, starting from these ages, their burden was to be substantially transferred to the group: older children, and other adults of various ages. That corresponds to the proverb “One needs a whole village to educate a child”, and was essential if these children became orphan. This burden included the basic needs food, protection and then the transmission of knowledge and many facets of education. To allow that, one needs in one side a desire to learn, imitate on behalf of these children, a propensity to admire its older of the same sex, and then the desire to transmit, to protect, show, help on behalf of the older ones. Those have many of other interests and centers of interest as the activities to which they are devoted, their relations with their peers, with the people of the other sex and their own children if they have some. Moreover, the boys and the men are potentially competitors, before the women especially. The risk is thus strong that these men are indifferent to the children and teenagers still little practiced, not very productive and weak who are neither their children nor their little brothers.

== The protection of the next supports of the group ==

These youngsters, and especially boys, however will not only ensure a few years later the reproduction, but will contribute to the resources and the protection of the whole tribe. More immediately for a man if it has children of his own, the boys to whom he grants his attention are likely to become the spouses of his daughters, or to deal with the education of his children in return, which illustrates explicitly the Hippocratic Oath, who in his ancient version include the duty to transmit to the children of his Master the science that he received from him.

If education, the transmission near these youngster is neglected, it is the survival of all the group which is compromised. Knowledge and the experiment of the men notably relate to objects that are quite far away from the inner where the children spend their first years. In addition, these two groups are a priori rather distant physically, insofar as the representation according to which the role of the men frequently included hunting or various foraging is right. The boys who spent their first years mainly with the women thus need particularly to be detached from them in order to be nourished from the knowledge, experiment of the men of their group, and having their support in their first enterprises.

This benevolence and this desire to transmit, to foster and to protect is not to be taken for granted, and compete with other motivations and strategies. It was thus necessary that existed a particular motivation, a sufficiently strong feeling, at least in a share of the adults, and especially in the men toward the boys. For that, our species would have developed a sensual, sexual and emotional attraction among a share of the men towards the boys, as well as the reciprocal one among boys. This feature present in the genes of a group would have been maintained and diffused because of its benefit for the youngsters as well as for the whole group of this best protection and dealt with educational matters.<ref>http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/antiquity.htm#Pederasty</ref> It is however not necessary that all the adults or all the men invest themselves as much in this education: the training is mainly made by impregnation, imitation, participation or listening of the discussions, but an even occasional special attention given to these youngsters, a benevolence or a deliberated teaching, be it on behalf of a limited share of the adults would multiply the effectiveness of this training.

== Derived trait and polyphenism ==

Biologically, attraction for the boys would be on the one hand a “derived trait”, in such it reuse the heterosexual attraction for another object and another function, as the evolution for example reused the front legs of the ancestors of the birds to make wings out of them. In addition this character would be expressed by “polyphenism”,<ref>http://www.ajspi.com/index.php?ID=235</ref> i.e. a very close or identical genotype can express rather different characters: in fact strict heterosexuality, exclusive pedophilia and all nuances between these two points. One uses this concept in the case of the trouts in which, among the subjects of the same laying, a part will remain all its life close to the place of laying, another will go downstream in the more important river, and a last part will migrate until at sea, like salmons. These sea-trouts will get a very different appearance from their brothers and sisters that remained in the river, but will nevertheless return to reproduce there. (For the population overall, that means not putting all its eggs in the same basket, since the trouts having migrated at sea, can make a growth much stronger but are exposed at more risks during their migration.) There is also polyphenism in the bees, and ants, in which the working females or queens, genetically identical will have very different phenotypes and functions. This kind of polyphenism is characteristic of a population or a species rather than to consist of characters heritable at the individual level. The genotype would not determine the sexual orientation of each person, but his potential orientation, and even their frequency within a population.

== A character expressed in particular cultures ==

One's sexual orientation is on a continuum, and willing to define types and categories is a difficult if not a vain task. One could make the assumption that the standard of pederasty is a simple sympathy toward the teenagers, a physical attraction that would be significant but less strong than for the women. In this case, those whose attraction for the boys is dominant, or who are attracted by preteen boys would be explainable accidents because it was necessary that nature leaves a margin to the determination of sexual attraction to obtain a majority share of “pure” heterosexuals and a certain share of men carried to be concerned with boys. Those being exclusively on boys would be “useless” because going beyond what is necessary. One could as well say that the standard of the pederast is the one, exclusive or almost, which will devote its whole resources and its intelligence to the education of boys successively or in the same time, which will provide them a thorough education, making it possible even in certain cases to produce an elite within a human group, men able to direct it, to carry out it exceptional enterprises like migrations or wars. One would forget then the first, the men for which the pederasty is not dominant, but however affect the efforts they will make, more significant than those of an ordinary man, for the protection and the education of the boys.

These two assumptions not being satisfactory, it is probable that each degree (or almost) of the pedophilia has its role or at least is likely to find it or not to find it according to the context, of the culture of the society depending on each situation, stories and persons. The pedophilia and the pederasties, if it probably do not bring an individual benefit for the selection, make sense on the level of the group and thus do not appear like a defect or a genetic anomaly or a development anomaly. Their expressions took very varied forms depending to the culture in which they fell under the historical period, and undoubtedly in the prehistoric societies. The pedophile and pederast sexual orientations, are undoubtedly the driving force of an essential share of the education without which the disinterest of the men for the youngsters of their group would jeopardize the future of these groups. As such, it thus appears like a product of the natural selection.

== References ==

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[[fr:Phylogenèse de la pédophilie]]