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| | ==Subpages== |
| | *[[Talk:Etenne/subpage1]] |
| | *[[Talk:Etenne/subpage2]] |
| | *[[BoyWiki:Etenne's Palaestra]] |
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| == MediaWiki, scope, etc. ==
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| Hey Etenne,
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| Thanks for setting up the account. I notice BoyWiki uses a fairly old version of MediaWiki, 1.13. There's a new version coming out, [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.23 1.23], that's pretty good: "With 1.23, MediaWiki starts to behave more like a modern website as regards notifications, to keep the editors of your wiki engaged and always up to date about what interests them. This used to require several custom settings." I can help you guys with configuration if you want the help, as I've owned and operated numerous wikis, contributed core patches, and developed extensions. If you would like any custom extensions developed, please let me know.
| | ==To all users== |
| | It would be a good idea to review this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view |
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| Also, I was wondering how broad the scope of the wiki can be. As the Newgon article [https://www.newgon.com/wiki/Nature_of_the_problem nature of the problem] points out, "Youth rights and participation must be an integral part of our eventual activism (without a broader movement to fall back on, we are doomed)". How far into the topic of youth rights in general can we venture without being off-topic for this wiki?
| | In short, the neutrality of point of view leads to an objective, "scientific" discourse, whereas non-neutrality leads to one-sided views and propaganda. |
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| [[Public Activism (Options for Closeted BoyLovers)]] notes, "But if you want to legalize child sex, it's inevitable that you will have to argue youth rights. All ageist laws are based on an understanding that youth are incapable, untermenschen in wait to become full human. For instance, advocates against ADHD drugs have to make the argument that children have self-ownership. The argument logically ends by also having self-ownership for sex."
| | An important point is perhaps to understand that specific sympathies are not incompatible with a neutral point of view: you can like a country, a person, an amorous preference, and nevertheless be able of an objective discourse about it. |
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| Not only does it make it easier to argue for sexual freedom when other youth rights have been granted, but it also makes relationships with young friends more convenient when they have more rights. For example, if young people are allowed to drive around, then it's easier to get together with them; if they are allowed to hold jobs, then it can make money less of a problem in the relationship; and so on.
| | Only objectivity is credible. That's why it is vital for BoyWiki. We don't "promote", we explain and illustrate. --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 12:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC) |
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| Also, what about girls? Is there growing recognition that the girllover and boylover communities should work together? Or is the topic of girllove best reserved for Newgon, ChildWiki, etc.? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get hold of the people in charge of Newgon to request an account; if you are able to help me with that, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] 23:44, 25 March 2014 (GMT)
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| @Leucosticte
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| Yes, we are going to upgrade any day now. During that time, BoyWiki will be offline for about 4 days.
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| As to the topic of Girllove.... I agree that is not appropriate for BoyWiki as we are more specialized. However, I think we can make some exceptions where our mutual concerns overlap.
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| I don't know anyone from Newgon or I would have been happy to help.
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| --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] 00:07, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
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| :If you want to be able to import the latest templates from Wikipedia, then [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto Scribunto] will also be useful. [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] 15:12, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
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| I will look into it. Right now, I am focused on getting the current bugs worked out and making sure it is secure. I did a test user block this morning which worked fine (our tech person seems to know what he is doing:) I was worried that some of the "tinkering" that was done may have messed it up but no, I can still ban the bad guys:)
| | '''Please ask yourself before hitting the post button''' |
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| --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] 15:35, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
| | # '''Dose this have a cultural or historical [[BoyWiki:Relevance policy|relavance to boylove]]?''' |
| :On Mises Wiki, we upgraded a year or two ago to an apparently broken version of MediaWiki that didn't allow blocks or page protections. For several months, those features were out of order but no major harm was caused because apparently nobody cared enough about the wiki to vandalize it, or they didn't realize it was vulnerable. As for the spammers, they tended not to use the same account or IP more than once anyway. BoyWiki of course will always be a potential target of haters, at least until a more enlightened or laid back future arrives. [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] 15:54, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
| | # '''By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?''' |
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| '''Etenne's rant for the day'''
| | == To all BoyWiki users:Naming == |
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| I have had quite a morning already.... I woke up to no power and no heat! I need more coffee!
| | The convention for naming pages is that articles should be singular whereas categories should be plural. |
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| Like I said, the new wiki is coming:) But you have to understand that everything here is done by volunteers and people get things done at their own pace... sometimes right away and sometimes a week or two latter. Therefore, progress is slow. We are mostly done...just some things need to be tweaked. The last mile does seem to be the longest:(
| | *Names of topics and topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a BoyWiki. article. Examples: "Law" (which represents a body of knowledge), "France", "George W. Bush". |
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| --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] 16:13, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
| | *Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland". |
| :We've been out of coffee over here for more than a week, so that I've had to resort to decaf tea just for the sake of having some warm beverage. But yeah, waking up without power or heat pretty much takes the cake, as far as unpleasant inconveniences go.
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| :Anyway, I wasn't trying to rush you or anything. I actually think this wiki is pretty good, tech-wise; site performance is pretty good and you've got a pretty lightweight (i.e. non-bloated) configuration set up, it looks like. I also think it has some advantages, administration-wise, compared to, say, Conservapedia or RationalWiki. At least BoyWiki doesn't lock people out at night and ban them for questionable reasons. It also has advantages over Wikipedia, as you pointed out in [http://www.boychat.org/messages/1371168.htm your BoyChat post]. It's really a breath of fresh air to be able to participate in a wiki that's friendly to child/youth sexual liberation and has more users than just me.
| | However, I am willing to hear counter arguments to this practice or suggestions before deciding what the policy should be --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] ([[User talk:Etenne|talk]]) 13:17, 25 March 2015 (UTC) |
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| :With reference to BoyWiki being "the voice of a single person", I admire that you had the passion and tenacity to stay the course when it was, perhaps, kinda lonely here. I have been in that situation many times. The first time it happened was on Libertapedia, in April 2009. All the other active users (about three people) got disgruntled and left, so that it was just me running the place. Perhaps I gave up on that project too easily, and let the wiki go to ruin when I could have found a way to put it on autopilot instead. It seems that if you stay the course long enough, other users will often eventually show up.
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| :A friend of mine who runs a wiki hosting company writes, "In a wiki environment building and working with a community is probably the hardest part. I have worked on several wiki projects and building as well as working with the community was the most challenging part. It is frustrating if the community does not build up and on the other hand it is very frustrating to deal with the community since it tends to develop a life of its own. It is really hard work to have a healthy community. If you don't have this morale is likely to sink the more time passes." [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] 16:29, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
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| | :Just yesterday I noticed that Wikipedia has categories with a singular title, e.g. [[wikipedia:Category:Vagina]]. Also, there are some plural article titles, e.g.[[wikipedia:Jews]]. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 15:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC) |
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| | ::You can't figure out what those two (obvious, at least, to me) errors are due to? Uh... You certainly make up in glibness what you lack in perspicacity. [[User:User4|User4]] ([[User talk:User4|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC) |
| | :::Enlighten me. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC) |
| | ::::Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. [[User:Lysander|Lysander]] ([[User talk:Lysander|talk]]) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC) |
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| Thanks for the compliments.
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| To be frank, I have never had a problem with my own morale because I have always held the position that so long as BoyWiki is a little better every day (whether it had users or not) I was fine with that. BoyWiki doesn't have to be a better wiki than anyone else.... It simply has to be better then it was yesterday:)
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| @Etenne:
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| It is easy to make a small, temporary alcohol stove for making "emergency" coffee. A empty tuna-fish can , with two table-knives across the top of it (careful - use old knives as they may discolor from the heat OR use tin foil scrunched into thin cylinders) and then with a little alcohol (takes experience to know how much - maybe 4 or 5 tablespoons of alcohol) poured into the can, and then a very small pan (one that holds less than two or three cups of water - but only put half a cup or so of water into the pan) then set on top of the knives (or foil cylinders), then the whole thing placed in the bathroom sink (for safety if the thing spills burning alcohol), then set the alcohol in the tuna can on fire, cover the pan, let the water heat (does not have to boil) then use the water to make coffee either by putting coffee grounds into the water, leaving for several minutes, and then straining through a strainer (you can even just let the coffee grounds settle for a few minutes if you do not have a strainer, then pour into a cup), or by putting so-called "instant coffee powder" (yech! that is ''not'' "coffee"!) in it and then - voila! - hot coffee!
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| I have done the above ''many'' times. :- )
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| Oh, where do we put ''bug reports'' or suggestions about things needing improving?
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| For example, the following URL:
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| en.test.boywiki.org/wiki/Portal:Boylove_News_Channel
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| ... needs a redirect to:
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| en.boywiki.org/wiki/Portal:Boylove_News_Channel
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| ... because Google has cached many articles from the "test" URL and users clicking the Google link find that the test URL never loads.
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| Also, there are some "advisories" which should be included in the "Search" page, to help users search better.
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| '''@Leucosticte'''
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| AND
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| '''@ Etenne'''
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| I think part of the problem for BoyWiki is to make user contributions easier by breaking requests for content into "little chunks" which users can provide easily, for example by responding to posts on BoyChat.
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| If a question were posed on BoyChat, for example:
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| <blockquote>BoyChat post:
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| "Anybody know who did blah-blah-blah/when blah-blah-blah happened." "Yeah, it was so-and-so/it happened at such-and-such time." "Can I add that to BoyWiki?" "Sure." "Oh, if you have any more info, you are welcome to edit the article on blah-blah-blah which mentions blah-blah-blah." "OK - I will do that...</blockquote>
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| Then give that poster a "nick" to edit BoyWiki.
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| This could slyly "rope in" an (unsuspecting) BoyChat poster, and get him to become an editor.
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| What do you think?
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| [[User:User4|User4]] 18:47, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
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| re test wiki
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| That should clear in time now that the test wiki is deleted (I think).
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| Yes, a redirect would have been a good idea but somethings are beyond my control. You have to understand that the bureaucracy to get anything done around here is extremely difficult to navigate. Like I said, when the new wiki come online.... I will see what I can do. That unfortunately is the best answer I can give. There is no fixing what we have got.... We are simply happy with what we are given:)
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| --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] 19:13, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
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| @Anyone
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| I need a mediawik link for the sandbox thing. I can't find an extension with exactly that name. Can you give a link to
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| mediawiki.org?
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| --[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] 21:04, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
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| :<em>"(The Google cache problem) should clear in time now that the test wiki is deleted (I think). "</em>
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| Uh, no. I am almost certain that it will not "clear in time". Even years from now. Really. I have a brown-belt in "Google-fu" so I think I should know.
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| OK - that was <em>1</em> of my 4 points.
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| 1) Is that coffee idea worthwhile?
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| 2)Oh, where do we put ''bug reports'' or suggestions about things needing improving?
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| 3) Redirects: you answered that.
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| 4) Suggestion for "roping in" new editors.
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| <small>(User4 sits impatiently, while tapping his fingers on his desk, waiting...)<big>
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| https://git.wikimedia.org/
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| OR MAYBE
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| https://wikimedia.org/
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| [[User:User4|User4]] 21:18, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
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| ''1) Is that coffee idea worthwhile?''
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| *yes but the power is back on now and I am far to lazy to do that when there is a store across the street.
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| 2)''Oh, where do we put ''bug reports'' or suggestions about things needing improving?''
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| *You could always email Bron but I doubt his response would be any different then mine. Fix what you are able to fix yourself and the rest we may just have to learn to live with. I don't have a better answer. I have enough trouble getting anyone to do what '''HAS''' to be done.... geting people too do what should be done is next to impossible.
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| 3) ''Redirects: you answered that.''
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| 4) ''Suggestion for "roping in" new editors.''
| | == Welcome back == |
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| *I have tried that to some extent with not much success.
| | I was glad to read your message on BoyChat and to see you're back. Then I thought: is there any hope left that the French BoyWiki will survive? :-/ |
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| I am still not finding how to set up this sandbox thing... is it done with an extension or a series of templates? | | Bron disappeared, I don't know when, why nor where. So did the French tech Pinocchio, which is a great loss. Some rare contributors obstinately continued creating pages on the French wiki between 2015 and 2019. But now I think they are disheartened because of the recent and sudden software change, that ruined all the formatting we had made on a lot of pages (thanks to Pinocchio's coding extensions). |
| :"where do we put ''bug reports'' or suggestions about things needing improving?" Ideally, [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:IssueTracker IssueTracker] or Bugzilla; in its absence, I guess [[Project:Bug reports]]? Then, as Etenne notes, you can bring the whole page to Bron's (or whoever's) attention, and they can either do the stuff or ignore it. But at least you wrote it down somewhere before you forgot about it. Also, if you post it on-wiki, we might be able to collaborate to figure out what exactly to ask tech support to do (e.g. what config settings we need changed).
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| :"Google has cached many articles from the 'test' URL and users clicking the Google link find that the test URL never loads." The solution is to use [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Robots.txt robots.txt] to keep Google from caching anything from the test wiki.
| | Now it seems that the Council's page doesn't work anymore -- or am I wrong? |
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| :"This could slyly 'rope in' an (unsuspecting) BoyChat poster, and get him to become an editor." It sounds like a good idea, but in practice it tends to be hard to get most people to edit wikis. Usually people would rather say "Can you add this to the wiki?"
| | If you can be of some help, I'd like to write more to you through a secure mailbox. |
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| :The only two sandbox extensions I know about are [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ApiSandbox these] [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TemplateSandbox two]. Neither is needed in order to create and use a sandbox page. Is there some extra functionality you're looking for that we don't have now? I may have completely misunderstood what was being asked... | | [[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 21:28, 13 June 2021 (UTC) |
| | :I categorized all the daily pages of the French Agora, from December 7, 2008 to July 9, 2014 (most of them were difficult to find before this categorization): [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Agora Agora] |
| | :Now everybody can see the really tough job that had been made by many contributors of the French BoyWiki, especially by the tech Pinocchio. It is not acceptable that such a job is destroyed after every update or server change, as exposed here: [https://www.boywiki.org/fr/BoyWiki:Agora/28_septembre_2020 Modifications intempestives] (written more than eight months ago – nobody even bothered to answer). |
| | :But do French-speaking writings matter?... :-/ |
| | :[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 13:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC) |
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| :The coffee idea sounds complicated, but addictions can drive people to considerable lengths. [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] 22:04, 26 March 2014 (GMT) | | :"But do French-speaking writings matter?" Well, I suppose that depends on who you ask. I would hope they matter to other French-speaking people and writers. I still don't have e-mail yet. Yeah, the upgrades do mess things up a bit but there is no way around that. |
| | :[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| | ::Thank you for answering. |
| | ::The true problem is: when Wikipedia runs an update of MediaWiki, all features already installed are kept and perform correctly; but when BoyWiki is updated, almost all features created by a tech are suppressed. Why? |
| | ::This is not "messing things up a bit", but destroying things a lot. :-( As I said before, when contributors see this, they are disheartened. |
| | ::I hope you can contact somebody who steps in on this wrong update process. As for me, I know nobody, and can do nothing: my only competence is to write about cultural boy-love topics. If "there is no way around" to keep my job in a good state and appearance, well... I will finally recognize that I was wrong to spend so much time and energy for it. :-((( |
| | ::[[User:Caprineus|Caprineus]] ([[User talk:Caprineus|talk]]) 22:48, 20 June 2021 (UTC) |
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| | :[[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| Do not know if this is useful:
| | == Messages from Eskimo == |
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| Google:
| | Hello [[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| sandbox site:mediawiki.org
| | I will be posting under this header any message I have for your consideration, I will delete old messages to make it more readable. |
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| Here is the URL to click on:
| | --[[User:Eskimo|Eskimo]] ([[User talk:Eskimo|talk]]) 12:48, 27 October 2022 (UTC) |
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| https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=sandbox+site%3Amediawiki.org&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1
| | :: yes you were absolutely right, that worked. Now, any guesses on getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work? |
| | [[Etenne]] [[File:BLSmileyface.png|40 px|link=Etenne]] 20:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC) |
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| <br>
| | Hello [[User:Etenne|Etenne]] |
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| From the results, maybe this:
| | Regarding getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work, can you post an example page or description of what the problem is? I can spend sometime on the Internet trying to track it down and report back if I find anything replicated. |
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| https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Wikipedia/sandbox
| | --[[User:Eskimo|Eskimo]] ([[User talk:Eskimo|talk]]) 13:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC) |
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| [[User:User4|User4]] 22:14, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
| | == Categories == |
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| == What to do about Newgon Wiki ==
| | Hi Etenne, I am happy that you are happy with my work! I know that I can put pages into categories! |
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| I propose that we do one of two things.
| | Gimli2001 |
| #add a new interwiki prefix, I guess newgonwiki:, for Newgon Wiki. Then when we link to it, we can use either that prefix or a template, e.g. Template:NewgonWiki. If Newgon Wiki ever gets taken down, we can just change that interwiki prefix to lead to either the Internet Archive URL or the successor wiki. Otherwise, all those links will break in such a scenario. --or--
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| #import everything Newgon Wiki has that we think is useful. They won't be changing any of it anymore, so if it's going to be improved, it's up to people like us.
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| [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] 22:21, 26 March 2014 (GMT)
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Subpages
To all users
It would be a good idea to review this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view
In short, the neutrality of point of view leads to an objective, "scientific" discourse, whereas non-neutrality leads to one-sided views and propaganda.
An important point is perhaps to understand that specific sympathies are not incompatible with a neutral point of view: you can like a country, a person, an amorous preference, and nevertheless be able of an objective discourse about it.
Only objectivity is credible. That's why it is vital for BoyWiki. We don't "promote", we explain and illustrate. --Etenne (talk) 12:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Please ask yourself before hitting the post button
- Dose this have a cultural or historical relavance to boylove?
- By posting this are you going to make Etenne lose sleep?
To all BoyWiki users:Naming
The convention for naming pages is that articles should be singular whereas categories should be plural.
- Names of topics and topic categories should be singular, normally corresponding to the name of a BoyWiki. article. Examples: "Law" (which represents a body of knowledge), "France", "George W. Bush".
- Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland".
However, I am willing to hear counter arguments to this practice or suggestions before deciding what the policy should be --Etenne (talk) 13:17, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- Just yesterday I noticed that Wikipedia has categories with a singular title, e.g. wikipedia:Category:Vagina. Also, there are some plural article titles, e.g.wikipedia:Jews. Lysander (talk) 15:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
- You can't figure out what those two (obvious, at least, to me) errors are due to? Uh... You certainly make up in glibness what you lack in perspicacity. User4 (talk) 02:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Enlighten me. Lysander (talk) 03:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
- Hey! You didn't enlighten me about what those two errors are due to. Lysander (talk) 04:10, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Welcome back
I was glad to read your message on BoyChat and to see you're back. Then I thought: is there any hope left that the French BoyWiki will survive? :-/
Bron disappeared, I don't know when, why nor where. So did the French tech Pinocchio, which is a great loss. Some rare contributors obstinately continued creating pages on the French wiki between 2015 and 2019. But now I think they are disheartened because of the recent and sudden software change, that ruined all the formatting we had made on a lot of pages (thanks to Pinocchio's coding extensions).
Now it seems that the Council's page doesn't work anymore -- or am I wrong?
If you can be of some help, I'd like to write more to you through a secure mailbox.
Caprineus (talk) 21:28, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- I categorized all the daily pages of the French Agora, from December 7, 2008 to July 9, 2014 (most of them were difficult to find before this categorization): Agora
- Now everybody can see the really tough job that had been made by many contributors of the French BoyWiki, especially by the tech Pinocchio. It is not acceptable that such a job is destroyed after every update or server change, as exposed here: Modifications intempestives (written more than eight months ago – nobody even bothered to answer).
- But do French-speaking writings matter?... :-/
- Caprineus (talk) 13:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
- "But do French-speaking writings matter?" Well, I suppose that depends on who you ask. I would hope they matter to other French-speaking people and writers. I still don't have e-mail yet. Yeah, the upgrades do mess things up a bit but there is no way around that.
- Etenne
- Thank you for answering.
- The true problem is: when Wikipedia runs an update of MediaWiki, all features already installed are kept and perform correctly; but when BoyWiki is updated, almost all features created by a tech are suppressed. Why?
- This is not "messing things up a bit", but destroying things a lot. :-( As I said before, when contributors see this, they are disheartened.
- I hope you can contact somebody who steps in on this wrong update process. As for me, I know nobody, and can do nothing: my only competence is to write about cultural boy-love topics. If "there is no way around" to keep my job in a good state and appearance, well... I will finally recognize that I was wrong to spend so much time and energy for it. :-(((
- Caprineus (talk) 22:48, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
- Etenne
Messages from Eskimo
Hello Etenne
I will be posting under this header any message I have for your consideration, I will delete old messages to make it more readable.
--Eskimo (talk) 12:48, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
- yes you were absolutely right, that worked. Now, any guesses on getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work?
Etenne 
20:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Hello Etenne
Regarding getting Extension:TimedMediaHandler to work, can you post an example page or description of what the problem is? I can spend sometime on the Internet trying to track it down and report back if I find anything replicated.
--Eskimo (talk) 13:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Categories
Hi Etenne, I am happy that you are happy with my work! I know that I can put pages into categories!
Gimli2001
