Talk:Etenne

To all users

It would be a good idea to review this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

In short, the neutrality of point of view leads to an objective, "scientific" discourse, whereas non-neutrality leads to one-sided views and propaganda.

An important point is perhaps to understand that specific sympathies are not incompatible with a neutral point of view: you can like a country, a person, an amorous preference, and nevertheless be able of an objective discourse about it.

Only objectivity is credible. That's why it is vital for BoyWiki. We don't "promote", we explain and illustrate. --Etenne (talk) 12:25, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

---

---

.XML dump of BW

I assume that you do .XML dumps periodically for security/backup purposes. If I had one of them, it would be very easy to search for and find errors. Then the errors could be made as a list of "items needing attention", and someone could go through and fix them at their leisure... in the decades to come. User4 (talk) 12:08, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

You can also do your own XML dumps. See mediawikiwiki:User:Leucosticte/Doing the Newgon stuff. (I guess I should've named it something like "Getting data from Newgon Wiki and BoyWiki") Leucosticte (talk) 13:16, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I now have all the BW articles (with all revisions -- 96 megabytes! [but there was an enigmatic error message at the end -- "can't handle xms style sheets" or something along those lines, maybe -- I don't want to load the file into a reader again - it screws up my RAM and stops me from doing anything else while it loads]) and also the "only current" articles (around 6MB. Oh, and there seems to be a glitch in the BW software regarding the "Add pages from category:" option. It doesn't seem to work -- could you give it a try? User4 (talk) 11:24, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Wiki council

Does the wiki council consist of people who have experience editing wikis and understand how they work? My concern is that some of the efforts to ensure the security and safety of users could go too far in the direction of eliminating the transparency needed for collaboration. Openness is pretty much the lifeblood of wikis; users have to be able to review one another's work, revert bad changes, and participate in holding them accountable. If a hierarchy is set up that only permits a small group of privileged users to see what is going on and/or act on it, then as soon as the members of that small group become less active in doing their jobs, the wiki begins to either stagnate or decay. Leucosticte (talk) 16:03, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Username change

Hi Etenne, Can I please have my username changed to Lysander? Thanks, Leucosticte (talk) 19:27, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Apparently no, when I try I get, "The user "‎Leucosticte" does not exist." message --Etenne (talk) 19:38, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Really. I wonder if it would recognize any other users. Leucosticte (talk) 19:47, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

OK, I got it to work..maybe it was becaused you were logged in at the time...I don't know.--Etenne (talk) 19:55, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Moving user names

I notice that you moved a user name to "dead". May I ask the reason for that? I would have liked to see that user's contributions. That user experienced some extraordinary things. Is that the reason for the move? User4 (talk) 06:59, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

No I was just testing that function because I was having trouble changing someones nick {see the above section}. I am pretty sure I changed it back to what it was originally. --Etenne (talk) 10:37, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Do you think that what happened to him would be good as "a warning" to BLs about certain dangers they may be subject to by IRL encounters? Would his story be a problem to publish on BW? (Assuming you know what happened to him...) User4 (talk) 11:03, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I know bits and pieces of what happened to Ghostwriter> And no, if you wanted to write something up, I have no problem with that. --Etenne (talk) 11:08, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I extensively researched all BC posts relevant to his truly tragic story. It could serve as a good warning to others. Of course, doing all that research again -- hoo, boy -- it took me half a day to do it...

There are certain things that are so sensitive that they should not be discussed here (certain people could be endangered by doing so). And (possibly) using your BW e-mail could also do the same. I don't understand why opening a safe-mail account, and discussing certain things off-board would be a problem for you. (And, no, this is not about R. and the other server.) User4 (talk) 11:14, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

BoyWiki:Agora

FYI, If you have something important to say about the administration or general editing of BoyWiki, I would prefer that you post it to the BoyWiki:Agora as those pages get saved whereas my user page does not. --Etenne (talk) 11:59, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I understand how you feel about that. Still, there are other security issues that sometimes arise in connection to BW that do not directly have to do with the administration or general editing of BoyWiki -- other sensitive things. Before, you thought I was referring to Roderik (I wasn't). This is about something else. What's the big deal about just doing as I suggested, and e-mailing me? User4 (talk) 12:29, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I have no problems emailing you, though I doubt I still have your addy as I delete my email frequently. My problem is setting up another email account (for personal reasons) and no, I did not think you were talking about Roderik (who has never been a member of the FSC or FSCo as far as I know) I figured you were talking about Melf. --Etenne (talk) 13:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

OK, great! -- then I'll e-mail you.

Grrrrr.... Melf.... don't start me on that... :-\ User4 (talk) 13:29, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

O BTW, I don't remember what email you recommended off the top of my head but remember that It is believe that both Fastmail and Hushmail have blocked Free Spirits domains and are likely not secure. See Email security. --Etenne (talk) 15:18, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

https://www.boywiki.org/en/Talk:Email_security ... Heh, heh, we bad, blood... ;-) User4 (talk) 16:14, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Pages in category "Agora archive"

... They don't sort by date. It is quite confusing... User4 (talk) 12:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

When I get around to it (and a few more pages) I will sort them by year.--Etenne (talk) 13:03, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Did you open an account yet? I gave *very* clear instructions...

RE: No..been busy too

Suggestion for "Featured whatchamacallit" for the Main Page

How about: Encyclopedia_of_Homosexuality? It really is an excellent resource! User4 (talk) 12:53, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

It still needs to be cleaned up and wikified a bit (as well as a bit more documentation/references) before it will be ready but yes, I am sure that would be a good choice. If you want, I can mark what needs to be corrected?--Etenne (talk) 13:09, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Sure - let me know. Also, how about taking the current Wikipedia article (it has some references) and combining it with the article that I created (which took me only three hours to do)?

I will take a look at the Wikipedia entry...perhaps we can lift a bit of the introduction. I will try to get to work on this as soon as I can... but the next few days (possibly weeks) are going to be hectic for as I have been ill recently and I have a number of doctor's appointments. --Etenne (talk) 13:44, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Please try to stay healthy!!! Take a good multivitamin daily (take two or three - the vitamins included are in such small quantities that it is perfectly safe to take more than one! (If you don't believe me, I can give references that confirm my statement...) - it's really important! As for me, when I'm sick, I just handle it myself... it has worked so far... doctors are not gods - they tend to over-medicate, which causes other problems... Hope you feel better soon! User4 (talk) 13:56, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this is not a problem I can handle myself as I am in a significant amount of pain most of the time. And yes, I feel my doctors are SOB's for not giving me an adequate pain medication ( because it might "mask my symptoms") Fuckers! --Etenne (talk) 14:12, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, pain medication is the other side of the story. They won't give you enough of it! If you are suffering from problems with your back (a very common cause of chronic pain), then there are things you can do to "fix" your back that the doctors know nothing about. User4 (talk) 14:22, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Not it's not my back... though I am told that I need a fairly routine operation that I am working on setting up. Plus just a minuet ago, I almost feel on the ice taking out my garbage.... I could have killed myself :) Sucks to be old! --Etenne (talk) 14:28, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, that will teach you to pay more attention to what you are doing, instead of dancing off to the garbage can (or listening to music while doing so) -- "just a minuet ago, I almost feel on the ice"...

Actually, the problem is not getting old - it's being old! Yeah, it sucks... Their are many things, good and bad, to be said about aging User4 (talk) 14:55, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

"Their are many things" and you want to correct MY spelling.... I wonder if the adage, The blind leading the blind applies:) --Etenne (talk) 15:09, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

I would like to say, "I see what you mean," but, well, apparently I can't!. Actually that sentence began as a different one, but got modified along the way, and the "Their" didn't get fixed... Excuses are like assholes -- EVERYBODYs got one... ;- ) Hey, I thought a little humor might cheer you up! I guess not... :-\ User4 (talk) 15:18, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

OK done--Etenne (talk) 18:05, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Check your new e-mail, dude... ;-) User4 (talk) 18:53, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

I just hope the guy has not caused big problems for himself. Should he be warned? What do you think? User4 (talk) 19:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Some stuff for pulling things out of - saved here

I have not confirmed yet if these materials are available under any GNU license, or perhaps if they are available for copying freely. But anyway, we would never want to publish them in their present form!

This is from an "anti" site -- but he has done a lot of (often good!) research, and we can pull stuff out for articles that we are missing -- especially about people.

I have made articles of them, but they are NOT categorized. They should all be "Draft" and not considered to be "published" on BW. I don't know how to do that...

Here are the articles:

https://www.boywiki.org/en/To_pull_stuff_out_of_1

https://www.boywiki.org/en/To_pull_stuff_out_of_2

https://www.boywiki.org/en/To_pull_stuff_out_of_3

https://www.boywiki.org/en/To_pull_stuff_out_of_4

https://www.boywiki.org/en/To_pull_stuff_out_of_5

https://www.boywiki.org/en/To_pull_stuff_out_of_6

https://www.boywiki.org/en/To_pull_stuff_out_of_7

https://www.boywiki.org/en/To_pull_stuff_out_of_8

The format that BW displays things makes it very easy to see all the links, to copy stuff out, etc., so that is why I cannot work with these files on my local disk.

Could you let me know what you think I should do for now with them? User4 (talk) 12:23, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

just put them in your Category:Junktest for now and when you are done with them I can delete them.--Etenne (talk) 12:32, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Uh, I hate to ask a favor, but due to my computer's RAM being totally maxed out right now, reloading those (very large) pages just to add the category would be a serious problem for me. Could you do it for me? Thanks! User4 (talk) 12:40, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Sure, I suppose I will get around to it :) OH and just FYI, the right way to do stuff like this is to make them sub-pages of your user page.--Etenne (talk) 12:54, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Hey dudes!

I think I've finally found my place.

Hello, I hope so:)--Etenne (talk) 16:12, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

General Search and Replace

Please tell me that there is a way for me to give you a set of strings to search and replace in BW.

For example:

• Search strings:

J. Geraci

Joseph Geraci

Geraci, J.

• Replacement strings:

[[Joseph_Geraci| J. Geraci]]

[[Joseph_Geraci| Joseph Geraci]]

[[Joseph_Geraci| Geraci, J.]]

Having the capability to do this kind of search/replace function would save hundreds and hundreds of hours of editing. Really! In a very short time, one could fix hundreds and hundreds of links and other errors!

I can automate these kinds of searching/replacing so easily on my downloaded .XML copy of the site... But that doesn't help BW much... User4 (talk) 21:43, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I am not sure what you are asking. When you do a search do you see the option "containing" then the key word you typed? If you are asking me why I add [[Category People| last name, first name]] it's so peoples names alphabetize right --Etenne (talk) 22:17, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, I found 13 examples of the search strings I mentioned above in the current BW articles which need changing.

I am talking about automating the search and replacement of certain strings in the entire wiki, and almost instantly. A "string", by the way, is a set of delimited characters.

What I am referring to is explained here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions

It may take some time to learn to use the StringFunctions extension, but in the future a huge amount of time (and I am NOT exaggerating!) can be saved by learning to use the extension! You can save yourself hundreds of hours of work this way. User4 (talk) 22:48, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Then yes and mostly no, it's possible but the guy who knows how to do it is away. --Etenne (talk) 23:03, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, it's just a matter of enabling the extension, then learning the syntax. Can't you do that? I mean, it seems such a waste for editors to spend so much time on menial corrections when the wiki software will do it automatically for them. In fact, I have seen you spend quite a few hours recently on tasks which could be performed almost instantly once you learn the correct syntax and enable the extension. Wouldn't you like to devote your time to other, more important things, and let the wiki software do "the donkey work" for you? User4 (talk) 23:13, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

This may be an even easier-to-use extension -- see:

*https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ReplaceSet

User4 (talk) 10:35, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Documenting copyrights

If a respected university professor reproduces material on his own web site, and includes the following disclaimer:

• "The documents available through the links below are provided for the use of researchers and scholars who might not be able to find the originals in libraries or elsewhere. It is assumed that all materials linked here are in the Public Domain, unless noted otherwise." (emphasis added)

... then can we reproduce those materials on BW? User4 (talk) 23:23, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Could you let me know your response to this question please? Thanks. User4 (talk) 21:57, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Could you link me to an example where other wiki's are doing this? So I can learn how they do it before I decide if we can do it. --Etenne (talk) 22:10, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, it's not a wiki, but it's a site by Dr Gerald Jones, who is an open BL and has written extensively about the BL "problem". His main page is:

http://exitinterview.biz

And the page with the disclaimer is:

http://exitinterview.biz/rarities/enter.htm

He has had his site for 8 years, and there has been only one complaint -- about reproducing a certain set of materials -- so he just removed them from his site. He has had no other problems about any of the other materials in 8 years even though the antis would just loveto have an excuse to "get him". User4 (talk) 22:26, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Cool, but I really need to know how other wikis handle this, particularly Wikipedia. Maybe Lysander ‎will know? I need to be able to see some kind of policy that allows this or some indication that this is an accepted and common practice on wikis. --Etenne (talk) 22:44, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

The more I think about it, this is likely not consistent with BoyWiki's TOC that wiki content be free and open licensed (unless your contribution is in the public domain). So I am thinking that we can't allow it... unless someone can show me that there is a provision for doing it. --Etenne (talk) 22:57, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Long-timer

I hadn't realized you'd been part of boylover culture for a long time. (I was trying to find a nice way of saying "you're an old-timer") I was thinking, the way to get at the truth sometimes is to look at what was going on around the time that new prohibitions were imposed. For example, what were people saying about pedophilia, adult-child sex, and child porn just before, during, and after 1977? What counter-arguments to the new legislation were raised before it became impossible to argue for that legislation's defeat or repeal without being denounced and shunned? There's usually useful information in the record from those moments in history. People made sure that their objections got recorded for people like us to read later. Lysander (talk) 03:25, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Actually, commentary made before/during/after the introduction of various laws/prohibitions is available, but unfortunately, not very widely. Are you looking for such information? If so, which specific laws interest you? User4 (talk) 10:41, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm fascinated with the history of the pedophilia/age-of-consent-reform movement, and with the political/social/cultural background surrounding major changes in legislation (for example, the banning of child porn). Also, I'm interested in how it came to be that dissident views on these topics were silenced and became impossible to express without being ostracized. I'm also interested in other cultures that look at these issues without the preconceived notions that have come to dominate the discussion in the U.S. Lysander (talk) 18:28, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

The Problem with the early internet is most of that information did not get saved. And of course, there were no Wiki's to collect and preserver that information. That is not to say all that info is completely lost but it is very had to get to. As many different people saved different things or have knowledge of different things. The hard part is getting them to share or let loose of that info. --Etenne (talk) 21:50, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@ Lysander: I could explain it all to you, but it would be a book-length explanation. Hey, now there's an idea... Actually, I already have some books on the subject(s), but they usually intersperse facts with fiction about ChildLove, and all of them are from "The Axis of Evil" cultures (the anglophones). Anyway, have you checked out this site: http://www.marti2u.keepandshare.com ? User4 (talk) 22:14, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@ Etenne: Yes, that's true. And archive.org has excluded almost all of the good sites, even though they have copies of them. Bastards! And individuals don't want to share the information they have for fear of giving out personal details that may lead to them being "outed". You have to be so, so careful these days. User4 (talk) 22:14, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

A suggestion to save a lot of your time

You know, you've got around 270 more entries in Dates to do...

Did you know that is possible for you to do all the entries at once for all the entries you are doing in Dates. You could do them in a text editor, then import them all at once into BW. You could save a lot of time doing that. What do you think? (and could you please respond to my other comments, etc.? I know you're busy, but I'm trying to give suggestions that will fix that! Thanks!) User4 (talk) 13:19, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I will get around to responding to your questions (you have to let me finsh my coffee first :)... however sometimes some of the questions you ask me require more thought, sometimes I simply don't know the answer, and somethings are simply not in my control to change. Even if you offered a large cash donation to BoyWiki, all the tech. people are busy on another project so anything that requires adjustments in the wiki software such as adding extensions ect, is simply not going to happen. --Etenne (talk) 13:36, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

User4, you can always resurrect ChildWiki on your own.. I'm just sayin'. Then you would have control. You gotta put your money and time where your mouth is, if you want stuff done.. Lysander (talk) 00:12, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Could you post the entire list you are posting information from in my "draft" thingy under my nick?

RE: The list that you are posting information on in Dates.

Could you post the entire list in my "draft" thingy under my nick (User4/draft)? I'd like to look at it. Thanks! User4 (talk) 14:07, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

No, it is set up as an HTML file... date/page by page. All I can tell is that it was last modified in 2003... I don't know by whom or even why it was added into the folder that contains the BoyWiki council board. However, I do believe I know which tech. guy was working on BoyWiki way back then and if I happened to run into him, I will ask. --Etenne (talk) 14:11, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Couldn't you load the file in a text editor (like Notepad) and then just put "<nowiki>" at the beginning of the file, and ""</nowiki> at the end of it, then copy the entire contents from the page you are editing, and just paste it into a message somewhere? Or, anyway, if you just post the file, I can look at the "page source" and see the whole thing. Some say I'm kinda good at .HTML... but what do they know? User4 (talk) 14:32, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

To do that wouldn't I need sftp access to download the whole folder? (I am simply your humble en.boywiki curator, I don't have that kind of access).... this is beginning to sound like work that is above my pay grade :) --Etenne (talk) 14:53, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Are we talking about just one .HTML file, or many?

If it's just one file, then don't worry - it's really easy! I assume you can load the .HTML file in your browser, right? Then do so, and right-click on the page, choose "view page source", then when that opens, press CONTROL + A to select all, then CONTROL + C to copy it, then open:

https://www.boywiki.org/en/ARTICLETEMPORARY

and past it there. Then put the "<nowiki>" at the beginning of the article, and ""</nowiki> at the end of it, then save it! See? Easy as pie! User4 (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

If it is many files, then it is a little more difficult, depending on how many files we are talking about. I can explain that if need be... User4 (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Please explain--Etenne (talk) 15:17, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, part of the explanation was in the file you deleted. There are still things you can do, using tools like FDM, but we had not gotten to that point yet. Using FDM is still an option, and combined with the information which you deleted, would fix your problem. User4 (talk) 20:31, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Deleting things which are jointly being worked on

The stuff on ARTICLETEMPORARY is "a work in progress" - I'm still trying to find those materials, and I need the info on that page.

Fortunately (this time) I had a copy in my browser cache, so there is no need to undelete it.

BUT -- please, in the future, when someone else (other than just you) is working on something, please don't delete it without checking with the other person or people, OK? Doing so is a bit abrupt, and it might be viewed by many as just a bit "less-that-polite," don't you think? User4 (talk) 18:53, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

What happened to userspace? Lysander (talk) 19:03, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

I am really not clear on what the "userspace" is, or how it works. Actually, I have no idea at all about what that means. User4 (talk) 19:18, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

In other words, put it in User:User4/ARTICLETEMPORARY. Lysander (talk) 19:34, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

We were working on it (and I still haven't got a handle on how to use "userspace" correctly), when Etenne deleted it without giving me any notice, and before I had the chance to do anything with it. User4 (talk) 20:26, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

How naughty. Where's the wooden spoon? Lysander (talk) 00:56, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I was thinking we could make him kneel on a ruler for, say, the next year or so. Or worse, make him study the difference between hosting material on a site, and merely linking to material on other sites (which is absolutely perfectly totally completely legal and acceptable, but he does not seem to understand that yet. ;-) User4 (talk) 07:53, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I think we need the following category:

{{CH}} [[Category:Psychology: impact on BoyLovers]]

I have created a large number of articles which could be added to that category.

How do I create the category? User4 (talk) 07:47, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Number of Encyclopedias I have on my local drive (423) which are organized as "you" suggest. BWs encyclopedia should be organized:

0

Number of Encyclopedias I have on my local drive (392) which are organized as "I" suggest that BWs encyclopedia should be organized:

Total number: 392

• (not 418 - I had previously included some non-encyclopedias in that count -- I actually have more than 392, but they are on another drive not currently accessible)

Now, doesn't this say something to you about how articles should be arranged in an encyclopedia?

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE ABOVE is organized simply by alphabetizing the article entries, NOT by dividing entries into ARBITRARY SEPARATE CATEGORIES! User4 (talk) 09:06, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

That is nice for them however BoyWiki is going to be categorized by hierarchy, although sub-categories may be a member of more than one category. The uppermost categories in the hierarchy are Encyclopedia, Entertainment, Life and everything else is a sub-category of one these main topic areas. Keep in mind that BoyWiki is not 100 percent an encyclopedia in the same way as Wikipedia. BoyWiki does not have such a narrow scope. BoyWiki is more of a repository of information pertaining to boylove history, culture, and heritage, art... etc.... --Etenne (talk) 11:11, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Pro-Pedophilia and Wikipedia Child protection

Hello, the child protection policy on Wikipedia is rather troubling it seems basically like discrimination. The policy states that any user who "attempt to advocate inappropriate adult–child relationships on- or off-wiki (e.g. by expressing the view that inappropriate relationships are not harmful to children), or who identify themselves as pedophiles, will be blocked indefinitely.". It's rather disappointing, since Wikipedia is considered one of the greatest sources for unified human knowledge. Check out the link here for more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Child_protection Lister34 (talk) 09:21, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Subpages

• Talk:Etenne/subpage1