User talk:FalseAlias

Welcome to BoyWiki! We hope you will contribute much and well. You will probably want to read the help pages. Again, welcome and have fun! Etenne 20:35, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Why I am leaving Boywiki for good

Hello, FalseAlias. First of all, I may have prejudged Boywiki. I don't really see anything that condones adult-child sexual activity. Boywiki is fine the way it is. Don't take any of what I am about to say personally, I have nothing against the people who edit here. One of the reasons that I am leaving Boywiki is that I don't personally agree with the political beliefs dominant on Boywiki. I am sorry. The second reason is that I don't want to associate myself with any political movement or controversial opinions online. I also don't want to do anything that would possibly make people suspicious of me and I don't want to look like I am working against the law, or for people to think or accuse me of doing unlawful activities, even if it's not true. I have always fully supported the law 100% and I will always follow and obey the law completely, no mater what., So I don,"t want any reason for people to think otherwise. I originally signed up to Boywiki to help contribute to Wikis with diverse viewpoints. I didn't realize that it could be unsafe for me to do so, So for this reason, I would like to leave Boywiki permanently. I am very sorry.

It's okay to choose to leave, and I'm not going to object to your ability to decide whether or not you wish to be a member. The only reason I questioned your decision is because it looked like you were leaving because you felt content was biased and electing to leave rather than to try fix the issue. To be clear, I didn't take any of this personally either. It was strange for me to read that you were choosing to leave while also having the power to fix what appeared (at the time of my reading) to be wrong.

That said, I do still wish to know what on BoyWiki (in your opinion) suggests that BoyWiki contributes towards a political movement or what might make people view you as a person who works against the law. If there is Wiki content which might appear to advocate for changes in existing laws those pieces should be edited (though I must state that there is a difference between the articles some users submit and the Wiki articles, which are to remain unbiased and objective in nature). I've no doubt that there are some parts of the wiki which were left with biased opinions or non-objective views (some of which I patched, but still many more to go), and I'll do my best to patch those as and when I find them. Pointers will be super helpful. If it's wiki content, and if I have that ability, I'll rewrite what's necessary to make it objective and non-advocative.

I understand your decision entirely, and completely respect it. While I think that contributing is safe, I understand how it could misrepresent a person by association. I don't have any ability to do anything with your account, that'll be something that Etenne has to do, but I understand and respect your decision. If you can help towards de-biasing Wiki articles before you go, that'll be extremely useful too (even if that's just pointing us to where edits need to be made). FalseAlias (talk) 01:59, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much for understanding. By the way, my views fall more onto the line of Virtuous Pedophiles which are: "Sexual activity between an adult and a child is always wrong", and I "oppose legalizing adult/child sexual activity or making it in any way more accepted", though I am not a pedophile myself. These are my beliefs, which I will always have. I also support what organizations like the American Psychological Association, have to say about pedophilia. It would be good to include the views of Non-Contact Minor Attracted Persons (NOMAPS) such as the views of this group to some of your articles, as well as pedophiles who view pedophilia as a psychiatric disorder and believe they need to be treated for it, so maybe their views could be represented on Boywiki, If you agree with that. I think that your article on pedophilia is well-balanced and scientific, though Wikipedia's article is a great guideline ( see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia). Also, I would like to know if going on to, making an account, and contributing to Boywiki is legal Outside of the U.S. (eg. Canada). Lister34 (talk) 19:38, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

I've no idea whether or not BoyWiki and/or contributing to it represents any legal issues in Canada. I think that depends largely on exactly what you contribute and for what purpose the contribution is being used for (as might be the case in most places). I wish I could say I was a legal expert but I am quite far from it. I try to know what I need to about what is and is not okay in the most common countries that boylovers originate from.

To address the line regarding content nature: I don't disagree with your views as much as you think. Personally, I don't believe all sexual contact between adult and children is harmful, but that is different to whether or not it is right or wrong. I think it's less up to the adult in those situations, that it is solely the child's choice only if they have all the information necessary to make a decision, but that's my personal opinion. I do, however, oppose any sort of legalisation or normalisation of sexual contact between adults and children without substantial research performed with large sample sizes evidencing that there are considerably more positive benefits from the contact than there are negative. To me, the notion that it should be normal in today's society is silly and unfounded in its entirety, and to make such a claim without having unbiased research to support such claims would be the demise of such a person socially, and potentially legally in some places.

With the above said, a wiki such as this is for the representation of known factual information (except for personal articles, which differ visually from primary wiki content so far as I am aware). If wiki content leans towards a particular viewpoint or unfairly represents factual information to bias it towards any view whether for or against contact, that content must be edited so that it is objective and presents only the factual information known to be correct (ideally this information can be cited, unless it does not need to be). If you want to direct me to wiki content that is in desperate need of revisions regarding objectivity, I will do my best to rework it so that it is objective and not attempting to advocate for anything other than understanding. I think that if opinions are represented in articles, the opinions on all sides need to be shown and not just the side we happen to relate the most to.

If it is of any help, we may be able to get in contact with one another external to here in which you pass me information on content which you feel needs editing for objectivity purposes or to remove biases, and I make those edits to the best of my ability thereby leaving your name out of things entirely. The contributions would be listed as mine, and since our communications would be private and encrypted you can remain safe knowing that both 1. I won't violate your right to privacy, and 2. your name will not come up as the author of an edit, keeping your name "clean". FalseAlias (talk) 01:39, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

O.K. Thank you very much for offering, but I am not comfortable in doing this. I made some changes to the article for Virtious Pedophiles. Please let me know what you think of it. In regards to your statement, "I don't believe all sexual contact between adult and children is harmful." you would never actually physically engage in sexual contact with children yourself, right? You were just stating your personal beliefs and never touched a child. By the way, I don't want you to think I am accusing you of doing anything wrong, which I am not. To clarify, in regards to Boywiki, the fact that it included views that state that adult-child romantic feelings towards children by adults is O.K. and normal, rather than inappropriate( which I think, make it seem ok to engage in inappropriate sexual behaviour), or saying that the age of consent should be lowered or abolished (the two views that I strongly oppose), made me falsely think in then past that Boywiki promoted or said these things are O.K., which I thought, meant that Boywiki thought inappropriate adult-child sex was o.k., which it doesn't, although "is holding the view that adult-child sex as o.k. or any form of Pedophile Advocacy legal in Canada? . Other than that, as a pointer, it would be good to include the opinions of Non-Offending Pedophiles (NOMAPS), who's views I strongly support, and explain their point-of-view on Boywiki maybe. I strongly oppose groups like NAMBLA for their beliefs. Unrelated, I also wanted to say that I oppose attempts and arguments to lower the age of consent or to normalize Adult-Child romantic relationships (NOT sexual in nature), and I view pedophilia as a psychiatric disorder (like Bipolar disorder or OCD) as opposed to a sexual orientation. I am sorry. I also strongly believe that children can never give consent to romantic or sexual relationships and they can never give appropriate consent and it would be wrong and immoral to state or convince people otherwise, as well as all forms of sexual activity with children cause them harm. I have always believed these things. I'm sorry, but I now choose to no longer contribute to Boywiki. Thank you for your understanding that you shared me. Please let Etenne know this as well. Lister34 (talk) 23:47, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

To clarify your italics paragraph: At present, I would not engage in any type of sexual conduct with a child. This would put myself at risk, in addition to potentially ruining that person's life and the various lives of people I know and trust both online and offline. My personal belief is only that it is not inherently harmful for a child to be sexually active with themselves, with another child, or with an adult. I acknowledge that it can be harmful, but I don't believe that it is always harmful. That's simply a belief. Nothing more.

For the pointers: I'd do better with article names, because BoyWiki has a lot of content on many subjects and I can only guess on search terms and hope I come across what you're talking about. I did some going through things yesterday (mostly by the Random Page button) looking for things that might be non-objective or may only contain views from one side and not the other. I didn't find too much but I did come across some pages that I feel need deletion or various revisions. I don't mind if you don't want to point out what specific parts of the article need changing, or for what reason(s). I'll probably find those out myself anyway after enough staring at it. Specific article names/links would go pretty far in at least starting the process. Your choice in that though. I'll still be going over things by pressing Random Page for a while yet.

Don't apologize for your beliefs. It's okay to have different beliefs, and I'm not going to crucify you for disagreeing with me. I respect that your views are different than mine, and I'm fairly confident that I would understand your beliefs if I knew the reasons behind them, but I don't need to know those reasons in order to respect your beliefs. I recognise too that your beliefs are why you are leaving, and that is okay. FalseAlias (talk) 01:42, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

O.K. Thank you very much for understanding. I respect your beliefs as well. I don't need to know the reasons behind your beliefs in order to respect them, either. Here is the link to the Virtuous Pedophiles page that I worked on. Also, I believe that any kind of inappropriate sexual contact with a child will always be "child sexual abuse" and I would never touch a child in an inappropriate way or anything else to mentally harm a child. I could help you make Boywiki more neutral before I go, but personally, I don't feel comfortable editing or having an account on Boywiki because of the risks involved. I am sorry, but I feel that I should part ways with Boywiki. Lister34 (talk) 21:40, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Articles I plan on doing something with

I've decided I'd be better making a list here of articles I feel need a clean-up of some description. Some may: contain blatantly false claims, make claims without sufficient citations, are not objective, or otherwise need revisions to bring it in-line with what is expected on a wiki such as this. Note: I only briefly looked at each article. I did not go through everything in the article. I will do that when I get to revising the articles.

• https://www.boywiki.org/en/BoyLover_child-abuse_narrative - Various claims without citations, some non-objectivity.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Misconceptions_about_pedophiles%27_sexual_activities_with_young_people Language cleanup. Maybe other.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Anal_intercourse Some cite errors.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Mental_disorder Objectivity.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Sex_offender I think this whole article needs a fairly big rewrite.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Sexually_violent_predator As above. Better definition needed.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Juvenile_sex_offender Needs some revisions. The article is extremely small, and should be labelled as a fledgling.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Ronan_Parke Debating whether this needs objectivity edits or not.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Indecent Some expansion perhaps.

• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Consent Imo, needs a rewrite. Consent is a deeper subject than two paragraphs.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Objectify Uncited claims regarding objectification. Imo needs an objectivity rewrite. How ironic.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Betrayal_of_trust Objectivity, and structure. The opening few paragraphs aren't particularly fact-based, and what claims are made are not supported.
• https://www.boywiki.org/en/Sex I've no idea what this article is supposed to be. It needs a rewrite.

Additional useful link(s) (not on the to-edit list): https://www.boywiki.org/en/Help:Editing_BoyWiki_101

Didn't realise there was a category for this. https://www.boywiki.org/en/Category:Articles_requiring_cleanup

Maybe I should be using that.

Other things for me to look at if/when I get time: https://www.boywiki.org/en/Category:Fledglings

This list will be edited in future. FalseAlias (talk) 02:14, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Why I stated my beliefs and an apology

O.K. Sorry for preaching. I have nothing against Boywiki or any of it's users. Please disregard what I said earlier about trolls and sorry if that alarmed anyone. It was just me being overly cautious. Please forgive me. I respect your beliefs just as much as my own, even if I don't agree with them. Lister34 (talk) 19:41, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Imo, you've nothing to be forgiven for. You were stating beliefs, and that isn't a crime. I was only slightly annoyed because you were rather excessively persistent about stating them in almost every message (at which point, I thought "I know this now, why do you keep saying it?"). I can understand ones desire to distance themselves from us especially if they don't share any paedophilic/hebephilic/ephebophilic desires. FalseAlias (talk) 12:27, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

O.K. Thank you for understanding. Lister34 (talk) 23:49, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for forgiving me

Thank you for forgiving me. Sorry again for my past behavior. I won't do that again. I respect your beliefs as much as my own, even if I don't personally agree with them. I would like to leave here on good terms and not upset anyone. Goodbye. Lister34 (talk) 22:37, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Just one more thing.

To clarify, when I say that I respect your beliefs, I understand your feelings behind them, but for me, I value people more than I value beliefs and ideas. Beliefs can be imperfect and in error, but people mean everything. I don't mean to be disrespectful by saying this and if it seems like I am, please let me know. With my above statement in mind, I don't support all beliefs and ideas, but I value those who believe in those ideas as human beings apart from their beliefs. Ultimately, even if I were not to respect one's beliefs, I still respect that person in that I value the one who holds those beliefs as a human being separate from their beliefs. I have always believed this, and I always will. And I am sorry to say this, but I can't respect the beliefs that you stated earlier, while I respect you in that I value you as a human being apart from your beliefs. I just wanted to say this before I finally leave for good.Lister34 (talk) 19:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

I think this had been cleared up already. Most people are aware that respecting a person isn't synonymous with respecting their beliefs. People respect Trump for following through with some of his policies, but they still disagree with the policy itself.

I had prepared a different response but you have since modified your wording, thus rendering most of my response meaningless.

FalseAlias (talk) 15:57, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

O.K. I'm sorry. I didn't realize that most people thought that respecting a person isn't the same as respecting their beliefs. Lister34 (talk) 15:59, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

About the content of Boywiki

When I stated, "I don't really see anything that condones adult-child sexual activity" in my earlier post, the material here can create an atmosphere that makes people more likely to offend, since many of the articles share the view that adult-child sexual activities are not always harmful. This isn't true, I am sorry to say this. I don't want to have anything remotely to do with this viewpoint. That's why I want to have nothing to do with Boywiki. I just wanted to clarify myself. Lister34 (talk) 19:44, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

This view is incorrect. The material here does not make people more likely to offend at all. No one is going to go out and have sex with a minor, and when questioned say "I read on BoyWiki that it's not always harmful so I thought I'd give it a go." People aren't that stupid, and your belief that they are is quite frankly offensive to every BL who has self-control. The content here is primarily factual, and your choosing not to believe them is a display of not being open-minded. There is a study out of Switzerland that concluded the use of child pornography does not encourage contact-offences (Source). I suggest you read it and then re-evaluate how the content here could make people more likely to offend when child pornography doesn't.

You have had since October to discontinue logging in, when you first stated your intentions to leave. You keep returning, so evidently either you want some sort of discussion or you like trying to shut us down by telling us we're wrong about something you have no evidence to support. I understand your beliefs, and I respect you for sticking to them. Now you should hold yourself to your word and leave, since you've made clear you want nothing to do with us. The best way you can achieve having nothing to do with us is by not logging in and not responding to messages further to your latest. FalseAlias (talk) 22:51, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

I will make sure to keep to my word. I just wanted to say one more thing before I go. Sorry for my ignorance. You are right. The content here won't make it more likely for people to offend and I was wrong to think that. Please forgive me. And sorry for being rude. In what I said before (where I was wrong), I was not accusing Boywiki of doing anything wrong, nor did I want to try to shut down Boywiki. After this, I'm leaving for good. I have nothing against anyone here and I am sorry that I offended you. and thank you for being patient and understanding to me when I wasn't always. After this, I will say nothing more. Lister34 (talk) Lister34 (talk)

A request to make some edits in my stead

Hello, FalseAlias. I hope you're doing well. Normally I would make these edits myself, but, long story short, this alternative seems better than dealing with my OCD at the current time.

I would be very thankful if you could do me the favor of changing the title of the following page by adding the words "Medieval" and "Persian", so that it reads "(BLSB) - The Medieval Persian Sufi Ritual Practice..." and so on.

https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_The_Sufi_Ritual_Practice_of_%22Sh%C4%81hid-B%C4%81z%C4%AB%22,_the_Contemplation_of_Handsome_Beardless_Youths,_as_Featured_in_Two_Anecdotes_from_the_Anonymous_Hagiography_of_Fakhr_al-D%C4%ABn_%CA%BFIr%C4%81q%C4%AB

Also, it would be great if you could create a page with the following title:

(BLSB) - The Categories of Same-Sex Male Eroticism in Ottoman Turkish Literature, as Featured in 'Repeller of Sorrows and Remover of Cares' by Deli Birader Gazali

The content of it would be the following (I will add the excerpt itself later):

From "From the Pervert, Back to the Beloved: Homosexuality and Ottoman Literary History, 1453–1923" by Abdulhamit Arvas, in The Cambridge History of Gay and Lesbian Literature, edited by E. L. McCallum and Mikko Tuhkanen (Cambridge; New York: Cambridge University Press, 2014). Footnote omitted.

Thanks for your attention, and sorry for the trouble. Dandelion (talk) 08:39, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi Dandelion, I echo the well wishes back to you as well. I hope you've been doing okay.

Per your request, I've renamed the Sufi Ritual page to add Medieval Persian to its title and have created the page on categories of same-sex male eroticism in Ottoman Turkish literature. For convenience, I'll link the new page below to make it a little faster for you to get to when you're ready to insert the excerpt.

https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_The_Categories_of_Same-Sex_Male_Eroticism_in_Ottoman_Turkish_Literature,_as_Featured_in_%27Repeller_of_Sorrows_and_Remover_of_Cares%27_by_Deli_Birader_Gazali

It was no trouble, so don't worry about it. Thank you for feeling me an appropriate person to approach on this. FalseAlias (talk) 19:34, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

A belated thank you for the assistance, FalseAlias. I really appreciate it. I may not interact much in BoyWiki, but I'm available in case you need help as a fellow editor. I have just added the excerpt to the page you created for me, so I invite you to take a look. Have a nice weekend. Dandelion (talk) 12:38, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Hello again, FalseAlias. At the risk of overstepping the mark, since you have already been quite helpful with my previous requests, I ask you for another favor, hoping that it will not take much of your time. I would really appreciate it if you could create a new page with the following title:

(BLSB) - The Categories and Dynamics of Same-Sex Male Eroticism in Ottoman Turkish Literature, as Featured in 'Repeller of Sorrows and Remover of Cares' by Deli Birader Gazali

with the content of said page being cut-and-pasted from the previous one that you created for me (this older page would be left blank):

https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_The_Categories_of_Same-Sex_Male_Eroticism_in_Ottoman_Turkish_Literature,_as_Featured_in_%27Repeller_of_Sorrows_and_Remover_of_Cares%27_by_Deli_Birader_Gazali

I ask for the creation of a new page instead of simply changing the name of the original one, as I would prefer not to have pages with redirect links (after the new page is created, I will put the original one, now blank, in the category of "Articles proposed for deletion"). I know that this a strange request, but, as you can notice by looking at the "Recent changes" in BoyWiki, whenever I try to correct certain mistakes or create new pages, I often end up doing a lot of repetitious edits against my better judgment. Therefore, in order to avoid prolonging this situation, I once again appeal to your kindness. Have a nice day. Dandelion (talk) 09:22, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Per your request, page has been relocated to the name you've provided and the original page has been left pseudo-blank. Since you are going to mark the original as for deletion anyway, I felt it likely to save a little time on your part if I put the delete tag in there in advanced.

The request doesn't present itself as strange. A large number of redirect pages can feel unusual, and takes up space that does not need taking if the redirect pages are unlikely to be used.

I know there's times where I've made multiple repetitious edits on the same page(s) to correct small mistakes or add minor details skipped out in other previous edits, so I know the feeling of wanting to avoid doing such.

A link, for convenience, to the new page: https://www.boywiki.org/en/(BLSB)_-_The_Categories_and_Dynamics_of_Same-Sex_Male_Eroticism_in_Ottoman_Turkish_Literature,_as_Featured_in_%27Repeller_of_Sorrows_and_Remover_of_Cares%27_by_Deli_Birader_Gazali

I hope you've been doing well. You have yourself a nice day too. FalseAlias (talk) 16:50, 19 February 2021 (UTC)